Opportunity With Rivers

[Topcat]

If your satisfied with yards and longevity.
Thats fine. If you want to keep yards and longevity at age 38. Thats fine too.

Ive posted many times I thought Rivers was let down by poor special team during his career. I posted he played at MVP level in 2009.

And I also posted that sometimes he got in his own way, and its time to move on. Go get the QB for the next decade.

You are a biased PR homer. And would rather the team continue to do same thing for the 11th time in a row. And make every excuse in the book for PR not making enough of a difference to get another win here and there to win the AFC West.

I want the Chargers to succeed even if that mesns moving on from a 38 year old 8 time pro bowl iron man QB.

I also want my franchise QB to find a way to win the division and not have 10 years in a row like a Philip Rivers lead team has.

Im drinking from a cup of half water and half possibilities.

Your cup of drink is seen though rose colored PR glasses and you think its coolaid. But there is nothing sweet happening and there are no AFC West titles and no rings. You get stats.

Philip Rivers has had a great NFL career. His resume is what it is. He is not 1st ballot hall of fame. But he ia certainly hall of fame consideration on later ballot.
It is not easy to do what he does.

Maybe I'm a blind Charger fan myself. I actually think theres still promise after Rivers. That there could be a very interesting and exciting next chapter. I can't wait to see it. IMO the Rivers chapter is over.

Your loyalty can give you more stats and more no AFC West titles for 10 plus years and more no rings.

Go ahead and call me nuts and a loon for wanting more than that. Go ahead and call me spoiled for not being satisfied with stats. I want the ring! which is why I promote being agressive to get the #1 pick in the 2020 draft.

Getting Burrow. It doesn't guarantee anything, but I already 100% know what I'm getting from Phil. Slow starts golly gee. Some great throws and some wtf throws. And not beating the Chief and Andy Reid.
And not winning the AFC West. And...ahem...SLINGING THE ROCK INTO COVERAGE FOR PICKS THAT LOSE US GAMES!

#spoilednutloon

There...fixed it for 'ya!

[21&500]

On one hand, I don’t FEEL spoiled
On the other hand, that’s exactly what a spoiled fan would say, I suppose.

[Guest]

If your satisfied with yards and longevity.
Thats fine. If you want to keep yards and longevity at age 38. Thats fine too.

Ive posted many times I thought Rivers was let down by poor special team during his career. I posted he played at MVP level in 2009.

And I also posted that sometimes he got in his own way, and its time to move on. Go get the QB for the next decade.

You are a biased PR homer. And would rather the team continue to do same thing for the 11th time in a row. And make every excuse in the book for PR not making enough of a difference to get another win here and there to win the AFC West.

I want the Chargers to succeed even if that mesns moving on from a 38 year old 8 time pro bowl iron man QB.

I also want my franchise QB to find a way to win the division and not have 10 years in a row like a Philip Rivers lead team has.

Im drinking from a cup of half water and half possibilities.

Your cup of drink is seen though rose colored PR glasses and you think its coolaid. But there is nothing sweet happening and there are no AFC West titles and no rings. You get stats.

Philip Rivers has had a great NFL career. His resume is what it is. He is not 1st ballot hall of fame. But he ia certainly hall of fame consideration on later ballot.
It is not easy to do what he does.

Maybe I'm a blind Charger fan myself. I actually think theres still promise after Rivers. That there could be a very interesting and exciting next chapter. I can't wait to see it. IMO the Rivers chapter is over.

Your loyalty can give you more stats and more no AFC West titles for 10 plus years and more no rings.

Go ahead and call me nuts and a loon for wanting more than that. Go ahead and call me spoiled for not being satisfied with stats. I want the ring! which is why I promote being agressive to get the #1 pick in the 2020 draft.

Getting Burrow. It doesn't guarantee anything, but I already 100% know what I'm getting from Phil. Slow starts golly gee. Some great throws and some wtf throws. And not beating the Chief and Andy Reid.
And not winning the AFC West.

#spoilednutloon

No, he is not a biased PR homer. His position is well taken.

On the one hand, you have a first ballot Hall of Fame QB (and yes he is a first ballot Hall of Fame QB because if he plays even one more season, he will likely be in the top 5 all time in both passing yards and TDs and in the top 10 in career passer rating, meaning that the only thing preventing a first ballot Hall of Fame result would be voter idiocy) and on the other you have a 10 cent fart of an OL that is preventing the Hall of Fame level QB from playing to his full ability. You are blinded by your anti-Rivers bias from seeing the obvious need for OL improvement. You see, a team does not get better by getting rid of the best player and keeping the crappy ones.

Once again, teams win divisions and rings, not QBs. Rivers' performance over time is measured by his stats. Those stats say that Rivers has not just been good. He has been great, truly first ballot Hall of Fame worthy. But Rivers has been consistently saddled with weaknesses at other positions--historically weak STs in 2010, horrible OLs in 2011 and 2012, bad OL and defense in 2013, bad OL and bad defense in 2014, bad OL and bad defense in 2015, bad OL and bad defense in 2016, bad OL and bad kicking game in 2017, and bad kicking game for part of 2018 and a horrible OL in 2019 (perhaps the worst he has ever had).

Rivers has been part of what has been excellent with the Chargers. It has always been the other team weaknesses that have held him back. If you want the ring, stick wiith Rivers, a QB that can win it all if he ever gets even a mediocre OL and does not have to deal with some other glaring team weakness costing the team games. The problem has been that Rivers has either never had a great team or when he did, other players came up very small to let the team down (2006, 2009, 2018) or there were too many injuries to succeed (2007).

Further, Burrow is no lock to be a great or even a good NFL QB. His arm strength is questionable. His passes seem to float just a bit and his release is not very quick. He has gotten away with some unorthodox throws that probably will not work at the NFL level. He makes quick decisions, but he is not an elite athlete at all. Minus the bad attitude and substance abuse issues, his game reminds me of Johnny Manziel--nice playmaking ability, but just not elite NFL material. Also, he has just one season of high level performance at the college level. To be clear, I am not suggesting he is a guranteed bust, just that he is not anything close to the great NFL QB lock you are making him out to be.

[Electric Chicken]

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[Boltjolt]

No, he is not a biased PR homer. His position is well taken.

On the one hand, you have a first ballot Hall of Fame QB (and yes he is a first ballot Hall of Fame QB because if he plays even one more season, he will likely be in the top 5 all time in both passing yards and TDs and in the top 10 in career passer rating, meaning that the only thing preventing a first ballot Hall of Fame result would be voter idiocy) and on the other you have a 10 cent fart of an OL that is preventing the Hall of Fame level QB from playing to his full ability. You are blinded by your anti-Rivers bias from seeing the obvious need for OL improvement. You see, a team does not get better by getting rid of the best player and keeping the crappy ones.

Once again, teams win divisions and rings, not QBs. Rivers' performance over time is measured by his stats. Those stats say that Rivers has not just been good. He has been great, truly first ballot Hall of Fame worthy. But Rivers has been consistently saddled with weaknesses at other positions--historically weak STs in 2010, horrible OLs in 2011 and 2012, bad OL and defense in 2013, bad OL and bad defense in 2014, bad OL and bad defense in 2015, bad OL and bad defense in 2016, bad OL and bad kicking game in 2017, and bad kicking game for part of 2018 and a horrible OL in 2019 (perhaps the worst he has ever had).

Rivers has been part of what has been excellent with the Chargers. It has always been the other team weaknesses that have held him back. If you want the ring, stick wiith Rivers, a QB that can win it all if he ever gets even a mediocre OL and does not have to deal with some other glaring team weakness costing the team games. The problem has been that Rivers has either never had a great team or when he did, other players came up very small to let the team down (2006, 2009, 2018) or there were too many injuries to succeed (2007).

Further, Burrow is no lock to be a great or even a good NFL QB. His arm strength is questionable. His passes seem to float just a bit and his release is not very quick. He has gotten away with some unorthodox throws that probably will not work at the NFL level. He makes quick decisions, but he is not an elite athlete at all. Minus the bad attitude and substance abuse issues, his game reminds me of Johnny Manziel--nice playmaking ability, but just not elite NFL material. Also, he has just one season of high level performance at the college level. To be clear, I am not suggesting he is a guranteed bust, just that he is not anything close to the great NFL QB lock you are making him out to be.

Burrow isn't the only QB to have one big year in college.
Aaron Rodgers only played 2 years of college ball, never reached 3000 yards in either. Burrow has more TD passed this season than Rodgers had in his 2 seasons and not far behind in more yards this season.
So all you can do is study the guy, interview him and go over plays and such and hope he will excell.....like any other QB you draft.

[21&500]

Burrow isn't the only QB to have one big year in college.
Aaron Rodgers only played 2 years of college ball, never reached 3000 yards in either. Burrow has more TD passed this season than Rodgers had in his 2 seasons and not far behind in more yards this season.
So all you can do is study the guy, interview him and go over plays and such and hope he will excell.....like any other QB you draft.

I'm not trying to bury burrow as a prospect but his limited time as an elite player does worry me.
I am thoroughly impressed by what he's done this year (and still doing) but I'm trying to avoid the hype train because it seemed to come instantly after a handful of really good games.
I also find it funny that many of the hype providers are critical of Tua for having a great coach, defense, Oline and WRs around him when the same can be said about JB.
my main concern is always "how is X player going to translate to the NFL" and there's nothing I see that tells me JB won't translate well, at least from my two eyes
i'm just concerned because he does look a bit slow to me, some might call it "graceful"
I had the same concerns for Josh Rosen, even in his good games, Rosen looked anemic and didn't buy into him until I saw enough. (wish I hadn't bought that cow right now, but that's a different story).
I just need to see a little more, and more there will be.

[Critty]

......if Rivers played for another team like Bengals, Browns, Lions, Bills or Raiders and piled up stats. But was not winning the divison for 10 years. Had too many questionable late game turnovers. Never beat Brady in 8 tries. And then the 38 year old became a free agent.

And then somebody posted lets sign Rivers......he has had poor coaches and poor o line, but he is a top 5 QB.

I am confident some of these PR defenders, probably most of them would be posting no thank you. Dont want a over the hill immobile statue turnover machine that chokes. They would post only Jameis has more turnovers over the last few seasons. They would post video of him tossing the Interception vs KC and then flailing on the ground. They would roast Rivers.

Not a single one of them would be pounding the table to bring in Rivers. They would want to go in a different direction at QB. Their posts and arguements would do a 180 turn the other direction.

But he is a Chargers great. And they deny any bias.
Then claim I am biased for thinking its time to move on and get a new franchise QB.

I thought Kobe was done 2 years before he retired. He was still great, but not a player you build around anymore. I was roasted for that take.

Many things can be true. Rivers played like an MVP in 2009. The other parts of team let him down some years. Rivers also made his own game ending mistakes and cost the team some wins. And he can be at the end of his career and making too many poor throws now.

I appreciate PR. But I think he is done. I dont see him playing well for 16 games even behind an improved o line. Even a great o line will allow pressure 30% of snaps. So 1 out of 3 pass plays PR will have to perform under duress. The other team gets paid too.

Would love to be completely wrong here about PR and eat crow.

Would love to see him win the AFC West next season.

If Burrow is a bust. TPB will know my projection and prediction of him was wrong.

I have no problem going out on limbs and falling down.

PR is slightly over rated and is not going to take any team anywhere, even behind improved o line play at age 38, 39, 40.

Burrow is Chargers best chance to get the team back to AFC West titles sooner than later. They can build around him.

[21&500]

thats a great way to look at the Rivers dilemma because you're asking for objectivity
essentially the question is, would you being in Rivers as a free agent if he spent his whole career up to this point as a Brown (I believe we used to call him bernie kosar haha)
it's not a perfect hypothetical because you can argue that Rivers' familiarity and embodiment of the bolt brand adds to his influence on the field
but talking strictly Xs and Os, would any Rivers defender bang the table as hard for Rivers as a free agent?
I doubt it.

[blueman]

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The Brees Sucks contingent approves of this post.

[onthefence]

Yep...exactly...I go back to something I've said before--on MANY of those awful, game-changing picks Rivers has thrown up, the pass pro was either good, or at least decent. So, yes, the O line is only PART of the problem...the other problem is that Rivers just can't usually handle the pressure in crunch time in close games...

Been watching him since his first start against KC all those years ago. He had his window. He had great o-lines. He had playoff caliber teams over the years. Just my opinion but I feel he has always been wound a little too tightly. You still have people on here saying all he needs is a good o line. He has only been sacked nine more times than the Cowboys who have the lowest amount in the league.They also average 4.1 yards per rushing attempt. Take those numbers any way one wants but blaming the o-line for PR's short comings (which most of the die hard PR fans continue to do) just doesn't cut it in my book. Is this o-line great? No but it sure isn't the piece of crap everyone seems to think it is. You made a great point in one of your posts about Pr always letting the clock run to one second or zero on the play clock. He does this quite consistently which allows the d line to know exactly when the ball will be snapped on almost every down. I do not see ANY other team doing this on such a consistently alarming level.

[onthefence]

......if Rivers played for another team like Bengals, Browns, Lions, Bills or Raiders and piled up stats. But was not winning the divison for 10 years. Had too many questionable late game turnovers. Never beat Brady in 8 tries. And then the 38 year old became a free agent.

And then somebody posted lets sign Rivers......he has had poor coaches and poor o line, but he is a top 5 QB.

I am confident some of these PR defenders, probably most of them would be posting no thank you. Dont want a over the hill immobile statue turnover machine that chokes. They would post only Jameis has more turnovers over the last few seasons. They would post video of him tossing the Interception vs KC and then flailing on the ground. They would roast Rivers.

Not a single one of them would be pounding the table to bring in Rivers. They would want to go in a different direction at QB. Their posts and arguements would do a 180 turn the other direction.

But he is a Chargers great. And they deny any bias.
Then claim I am biased for thinking its time to move on and get a new franchise QB.

I thought Kobe was done 2 years before he retired. He was still great, but not a player you build around anymore. I was roasted for that take.

Many things can be true. Rivers played like an MVP in 2009. The other parts of team let him down some years. Rivers also made his own game ending mistakes and cost the team some wins. And he can be at the end of his career and making too many poor throws now.

I appreciate PR. But I think he is done. I dont see him playing well for 16 games even behind an improved o line. Even a great o line will allow pressure 30% of snaps. So 1 out of 3 pass plays PR will have to perform under duress. The other team gets paid too.

Would love to be completely wrong here about PR and eat crow.

Would love to see him win the AFC West next season.

If Burrow is a bust. TPB will know my projection and prediction of him was wrong.

I have no problem going out on limbs and falling down.

PR is slightly over rated and is not going to take any team anywhere, even behind improved o line play at age 38, 39, 40.

Burrow is Chargers best chance to get the team back to AFC West titles sooner than later. They can build around him.

This 100x!!

You will never get the die hard PR fans to admit his time is up. This o-line is averaging 4.1 yards per rushing attempt and has only allowed 27 sacs. Only nine more than the league low. Yes this franchise has had some absolutely horrible o-lines but they have also had some great ones with PR. This o-line is not the red headed step child that everyone seems to think it is. Is it great? Of course not but far from the garbage everyone wants to think they are.

[PMR9FAN]

Sign PR to a 1 year deal with an option for 2 at a cap friendly amount. He doesn't need the money and wants to play so that seems like a good compromise.

And then let him compete with whomever for the starting job.

Pretty simple solution.