POLL: Should The Bolts Trade Up For Tua?

[Charge!]

I have consistently said that Trevor Lawrence is a QB that is worthy of the #1 overall draft choice when he comes out next year. I think he has the most potential of any QB planning to enter the NFL draft that I recall seeing in the entire time I have been following the NFL (45+ years). Is that clear enough?

Lone Bolt is correct, though, in his statement to the effect that only one team will get Lawrence and it may well not be us. We will have to draft at our QB of the future at some point, but this year's QBs are not worth the #6 overall pick and I do not favor reaching for a QB when there are some blue chip prospects at other positions that may be available when it is our turn to draft.

interesting...... Lawrence has more potential than Burrow, Elway, Marino, manning, Rivers, Luck......etc??????? Lawrence is no where close.......

Lawrence is a pure RPO running QB with a strong but not consistently accurate arm...... he won a bowl game by primarily running the ball not passing it..... How do you explain when LSU stopped him from running and forced him to actually pass the ball in the national championship game????? lawrence couldn't because he is not a great PASSER....and PASSING is the reason you have a QB........

Burrow and Tua(if healthy) are elite passers and far superior to Lawrence.......as passers and that is what is important.....

I agree that Hebert and Love are far far below Burrow and Tua in terms of consistency and should not be drafted in top 6 picks but unfortunately, because of the QB shortage, and how many teams desperately need one, they all get drafted higher than they maybe should be..... if Tua and Burrow are gone, and the Chargers believe in Hebert or Love, they cannot wait till 2nd round to take them..... the Chargers will have to take them at 6...... if we dont they will be taken by CAR, JAX, OAK, NE, TB.....or others......

[Guest]

interesting...... Lawrence has more potential than Burrow, Elway, Marino, manning, Rivers, Luck......etc??????? Lawrence is no where close.......

Lawrence is a pure RPO running QB with a strong but not consistently accurate arm...... he won a bowl game by primarily running the ball not passing it..... How do you explain when LSU stopped him from running and forced him to actually pass the ball in the national championship game????? lawrence couldn't because he is not a great PASSER....and PASSING is the reason you have a QB........

Burrow and Tua(if healthy) are elite passers and far superior to Lawrence.......as passers and that is what is important.....

I agree that Hebert and Love are far far below Burrow and Tua in terms of consistency and should not be drafted in top 6 picks but unfortunately, because of the QB shortage, and how many teams desperately need one, they all get drafted higher than they maybe should be..... if Tua and Burrow are gone, and the Chargers believe in Hebert or Love, they cannot wait till 2nd round to take them..... the Chargers will have to take them at 6...... if we dont they will be taken by CAR, JAX, OAK, NE, TB.....or others......

I disagree with your take pretty much across the board.

Your take on Lawrence is laughable. His passing stats, including completion percentage, as a true freshman and true sophomore are better than those put up by Mahomes as a sophomore and junior, leading up to Mahomes entering the NFL draft. This, of course, is in addition to Lawrence being a better, more gifted runner and having a stronger, more accurate arm than Mahomes. Are you beginning to understand the potential just a little?

The reality is that Lawrence would have been the #1 pick over Murray in last year's draft. He would be the #1 pick over Burrow, Tua and Herbert in this year's draft. And he will be the #1 pick in next year's draft.

You can cite Burrow's red herring red shirt senior season, but the red flag, red light reality is that when Burrow did not have the perfect system, a vastly more talented team, and constantly wide open receivers in his other seasons like he did in 2019, Joe Burrow was Joe Blow. And the problem is that Burrow will never have the advantages that he had last season at LSU in the NFL.

I think Burrrow could be good game manager type/efficient QB at the NFL level, but he is not going to be any sort of game changing dynamic force.

Lawrence has been accurate on a more consistent basis than Burrow. In his red shirt junior season, Burrow only managed to complete 57.8% of his passes. If he is so great, why did he suck? Why couldn't he beat out Haskins at Ohio State? Lawrence, on the other hand, has completed over 65% of his passes in both of his seasons at Clemson.

In the NFL, my expectation is that Tua will be an injury prone average NFL QB.

I see Herbert as being better than either Burrow or Tua, but Herbert has nowhere near the ability that Lawrence has.

As for where Lawrence ranks among all time prospects, I see Lawrence as more talented than Elway. Marino was always seen as a great passer (and he ended up being much better than Elway), but Elway was the greater prospect entering the draft. Luck was not as much of a prospect entering the draft as Elway was, though he was always the clear #1 overall pick in the year he entered the draft.

Rivers is my favorite player, but it is okay for me to admit that even though he is a great passer, Rivers does not have anywhere near the arm talent or athleticism that Lawrence has.

As for what other teams will do, I think somebody will take Herbert before pick #37. Love could last longer. Carolina just agreed with Bridgewater at over $20M per season over 3 seasons, so they likely will not be taking a QB. Carr is underrated. I doubt Oakland will draft a QB as they already have a pretty good one. I would rather have Carr than either Burrow or Tua. It is a close call with Herbert. Brady wants to play multiple additional seasons so now that TB has TB12, TB may not be so quick to draft a QB.

[Jorgecasas10]

I disagree with your take pretty much across the board.

Your take on Lawrence is laughable. His passing stats, including completion percentage, as a true freshman and true sophomore are better than those put up by Mahomes as a sophomore and junior, leading up to Mahomes entering the NFL draft. This, of course, is in addition to Lawrence being a better, more gifted runner and having a stronger, more accurate arm than Mahomes. Are you beginning to understand the potential just a little?

The reality is that Lawrence would have been the #1 pick over Murray in last year's draft. He would be the #1 pick over Burrow, Tua and Herbert in this year's draft. And he will be the #1 pick in next year's draft.

You can cite Burrow's red herring red shirt senior season, but the red flag, red light reality is that when Burrow did not have the perfect system, a vastly more talented team, and constantly wide open receivers in his other seasons like he did in 2019, Joe Burrow was Joe Blow. And the problem is that Burrow will never have the advantages that he had last season at LSU in the NFL.

I think Burrrow could be good game manager type/efficient QB at the NFL level, but he is not going to be any sort of game changing dynamic force.

Lawrence has been accurate on a more consistent basis than Burrow. In his red shirt junior season, Burrow only managed to complete 57.8% of his passes. If he is so great, why did he suck? Why couldn't he beat out Haskins at Ohio State? Lawrence, on the other hand, has completed over 65% of his passes in both of his seasons at Clemson.

In the NFL, my expectation is that Tua will be an injury prone average NFL QB.

I see Herbert as being better than either Burrow or Tua, but Herbert has nowhere near the ability that Lawrence has.

As for where Lawrence ranks among all time prospects, I see Lawrence as more talented than Elway. Marino was always seen as a great passer (and he ended up being much better than Elway), but Elway was the greater prospect entering the draft. Luck was not as much of a prospect entering the draft as Elway was, though he was always the clear #1 overall pick in the year he entered the draft.

Rivers is my favorite player, but it is okay for me to admit that even though he is a great passer, Rivers does not have anywhere near the arm talent or athleticism that Lawrence has.

As for what other teams will do, I think somebody will take Herbert before pick #37. Love could last longer. Carolina just agreed with Bridgewater at over $20M per season over 3 seasons, so they likely will not be taking a QB. Carr is underrated. I doubt Oakland will draft a QB as they already have a pretty good one. I would rather have Carr than either Burrow or Tua. It is a close call with Herbert. Brady wants to play multiple additional seasons so now that TB has TB12, TB may not be so quick to draft a QB.

I totally agree with you, lawrence is an all time great prospect
i would trade all of our 2021 draft picks for him

[Lightnin']

I'm damned skeptical of Tagavloa; if he can't hold up in the SEC behind 'bama OL, with an effective run game, and wide open receivers, how's he gonna last in the NFL ?

Good guy, leader, fine passer, but-his NCAA injury history scares the Hell out of me...

[chargeroo]

I'm damned skeptical of Tagavloa; if he can't hold up in the SEC behind 'bama OL, with an effective run game, and wide open receivers, how's he gonna last in the NFL ?

Good guy, leader, fine passer, but-his NCAA injury history scares the Hell out of me...

His injury history scares me too. I sure wouldn't spend some good draft picks to move up to take him. If he falls to us I guess I'd take a chance on him, but he is a scary pick.

[richpjr]

You can cite Burrow's red herring red shirt senior season, but the red flag, red light reality is that when Burrow did not have the perfect system, a vastly more talented team, and constantly wide open receivers in his other seasons like he did in 2019, Joe Burrow was Joe Blow. And the problem is that Burrow will never have the advantages that he had last season at LSU in the NFL.

And yet the numbers simply don't back up this assertion:

There’s been a lot of talk about Burrow getting off easy in 2019 by his top receiving unit, but as good as the LSU receiving unit has been, Burrow has thrown into a tight window more than anyone else in the group. On these passes, he has thrown six more touchdowns with anyone else at 21 and limited his interceptions to just five, while recording an adjusted completion percentage that was 7% higher than everyone at 67.3% and a passer rating 23 points higher than any other quarterback at 115.9.

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-joe-burrow-best-college-qb-of-the-pff-era

[Guest]

And yet the numbers simply don't back up this assertion:

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-joe-burrow-best-college-qb-of-the-pff-era

The numbers do back up the assertion that except for 2019 Joe Burrow was Joe Blow and it is pure horse manure to suggest to the contrary. Joe Burrow's red shirt junior 2018 stat line is as follows: 219-379, 57.8% completion percentage, 2894 yards, 7.6 YPA, 16 TDs, 5 INTs, 133.2 QB rating. Those are the numbers and that was after he transferred after failing to beat out Haskins at Ohio State, who has been entirely mediocre in the NFL so far.

Moreover, your cherry picked quote from PFF's undisclosed analysis is worthless. Nevermind that PFF does not disclose its formula, methodology, complete data or analysis in the article which makes your argument nothing more than "PFF said so", the conclusion of the article itself does not support the notion that Burrow was some sort of all time legendary QB in 2019. At the end of the day, in an analysis that PFF states has only been performed since 2014, Burrow managed to post the third best season behind Mayfield in 2017 and Murray in 2018, two QBs who also have been entirely mediocre so far in the NFL. And this was with an absolutely loaded team. Got it.

Even still, while their take on top collegiate QB seasons pretty much shows us that a good college season by a QB does not mean that QB will be a great QB in the NFL, I still would like to know what on earth they were looking at when they decided that Burrow had even that good of a season in 2019. How did they score the play when Burrow paused to figure out which of many open receivers to pass the ball to, shifted his feet as token pressure arrived and then lofted a flutter ball to a wide open receiver for a reception before the late arriving defender could get to the flutter ball. Whatever they scored that play, that play happened a whole bunch of times.

That play did not impress me very much because I do not think that any of that will translate very well to the NFL.

I continue to believe that Burrow's best traits are intelligence and vision, but that his lack of arm strength will hurt him at the NFL level. I see a game manager, do not turn the ball over type of QB and those QBs can be just fine in the NFL, but I do not see Burrow as any sort of dynamic game changing force at all. I think in the NFL Burrow will be the kind of QB that will not lose games for his team, but I do not see him as the kind of QB that will go out and make plays consistently to win them.

[richpjr]

The numbers do back up the assertion that except for 2019 Joe Burrow was Joe Blow and it is pure horse manure to suggest to the contrary. Joe Burrow's red shirt junior 2018 stat line is as follows: 219-379, 57.8% completion percentage, 2894 yards, 7.6 YPA, 16 TDs, 5 INTs, 133.2 QB rating. Those are the numbers and that was after he transferred after failing to beat out Haskins at Ohio State, who has been entirely mediocre in the NFL so far.

Moreover, your cherry picked quote from PFF's undisclosed analysis is worthless. Nevermind that PFF does not disclose its formula, methodology, complete data or analysis in the article which makes your argument nothing more than "PFF said so", the conclusion of the article itself does not support the notion that Burrow was some sort of all time legendary QB in 2019. At the end of the day, in an analysis that PFF states has only been performed since 2014, Burrow managed to post the third best season behind Mayfield in 2017 and Murray in 2018, two QBs who also have been entirely mediocre so far in the NFL. And this was with an absolutely loaded team. Got it.

Even still, while their take on top collegiate QB seasons pretty much shows us that a good college season by a QB does not mean that QB will be a great QB in the NFL, I still would like to know what on earth they were looking at when they decided that Burrow had even that good of a season in 2019. How did they score the play when Burrow paused to figure out which of many open receivers to pass the ball to, shifted his feet as token pressure arrived and then lofted a flutter ball to a wide open receiver for a reception before the late arriving defender could get to the flutter ball. Whatever they scored that play, that play happened a whole bunch of times.

That play did not impress me very much because I do not think that any of that will translate very well to the NFL.

I continue to believe that Burrow's best traits are intelligence and vision, but that his lack of arm strength will hurt him at the NFL level. I see a game manager, do not turn the ball over type of QB and those QBs can be just fine in the NFL, but I do not see Burrow as any sort of dynamic game changing force at all. I think in the NFL Burrow will be the kind of QB that will not lose games for his team, but I do not see him as the kind of QB that will go out and make plays consistently to win them.

I copied only a part of that "worthless" analysis to make the point about your take that Burrows only completed a high number of passes this year because his receivers are running free. Just because PFF doesn't release what criteria they use doesn't mean it isn't true. My eye test tells me the same thing that their analysis does - he is extraordinarily accurate and can complete passes in a very tight window, which is crucial for success at the NFL level. Literally the only knock that I, along with just about everyone else who has watched him outside of you, is that his arm strength is not elite. I expect him to have much more success than you do. Time will tell.

[Guest]

I copied only a part of that "worthless" analysis to make the point about your take that Burrows only completed a high number of passes this year because his receivers are running free. Just because PFF doesn't release what criteria they use doesn't mean it isn't true. My eye test tells me the same thing that their analysis does - he is extraordinarily accurate and can complete passes in a very tight window, which is crucial for success at the NFL level. Literally the only knock that I, along with just about everyone else who has watched him outside of you, is that his arm strength is not elite. I expect him to have much more success than you do. Time will tell.

Again, your take is incorrect. First, you are asserting something. You have the burden of proving that thing. Saying "PFF said so" proves nothing. Also, in regard to the total quality of Burrow's 2019 season, PFF itself does not even rank it as the best season by a collegiate QB in the past 6 seasons even with its questionable findings that conflict with what a lot of people saw (wide open receivers everywhere on most plays).

Further, I challenge Burrow's so-called elite accuracy as well. In 2018, he completed just 57.8% of his passes. I am not buying a nearly 20% increase in his completion percentage as being that he just suddenly got that much better. Wide open receivers and playing for a team vastly superior to other teams made a huge difference. He will not have that benefit in the NFL--none of it.

Moreover, Burrow's physical limitations concerning his arm talent are obvious. Maybe he can overcome those limitations in the right system, but to suggest that he is some sort of special dynamic game changing force is, frankly, laughable. Almost every year this century a QB gets hyped as a dynamic game changing force. This century, not one of those #1 overall QBs has lived up to that billing. Burrow will likely continue that trend.

I suspect the real Burrow will be a competent game manager type QB. He will be fine if he is not asked to do too much. He will not be a historically great player.

Honestly, I am delighted that teams like the Bungles are willing to look past players like Chase Young and Isaiah Simmons and draft players like Joe Burrow and Tua Tagovailoa. It gives us a chance that Simmons will be on the board at #6. And if Simmons is on the board at #6, it had better not take our front office more than 20 seconds to turn in the draft card selecting him.

[RTPbolt]

Chaincrusher....rich has been on this board from the beginning....he is a diehard fan here. Show some choices in words that arent telling people they are wrong....you yourself are making best guesses based on stats. This is discussion. Its fine to disagree without sounding so hostile which i feel you are bordering on. I appreciate opinions and people making points...this is a friendly space brother.

[Guest]

Chaincrusher....rich has been on this board from the beginning....he is a diehard fan here. Show some choices in words that arent telling people they are wrong....you yourself are making best guesses based on stats. This is discussion. Its fine to disagree without sounding so hostile which i feel you are bordering on. I appreciate opinions and people making points...this is a friendly space brother.

RTPbolt, I 100% agree that we are all Chargers fans and that we are all expressing our opinions here whether we agree or disagree. I definitely do not wish to be unfriendly or even to appear that way.

I do not agree with richpjr's opinion on the issue so I stated my belief that "your take is incorrect". That is my belief. My thinking was that that language was a pretty tame way of saying that.

However, to richpjr and to everyone else, what I said means nothing more than I disagree with his opinion on the issue. There is zero hostility at all and I certainly apologize if that was the impression created. To me, this discussion has been nothing more than two people discussing different sides of a football issue.

RTPbolt, thank you for bringing your view of the posts to my attention so that I could know that there was a concern.

[captaind]

Chaincrusher....rich has been on this board from the beginning....he is a diehard fan here. Show some choices in words that arent telling people they are wrong....you yourself are making best guesses based on stats. This is discussion. Its fine to disagree without sounding so hostile which i feel you are bordering on. I appreciate opinions and people making points...this is a friendly space brother.

He's just trying to take a controversial stance to erase his previous errant prediction about Mahomes.

But, hey....why bury yourself 6 feet under when there's perfectly good dirt underneath your coffin?