2021 Draft Discussion - Bolts Pick 13th

[Guest]

I believe the issue is that I value Moehrig more Staley's defense than others. He has definitely shot up boards from round two to #20, even #17.

Minkah is a better comp than Bates IMV. He was selected #11 overall and has been All Pro the last two seasons !!

Also, I prolly value MDavis more than yourself. There are midround corners I like. We need two. That area of need is right there with OL.

I value Michael Davis. I was happy when the team's re-signed him because he is our team's best CB. Still, while I like him quite a bit, I do not see him as true #1 shutdown type CB. I see him as a good #2 CB. What we need is the true #1 CB.

Also, to be clear, I think Moehrig is a good player, a definite first round prospect. I just question him at 1-13, especially with the glaring needs the team has. If the team is not going to take a CB or OT in round 1, I think that pick has to be a player widely considered to be a top 10 non-QB prospect that has fallen, someone like Pitts or Parsons where you are left thinking to yourself, "Holy crap! How is that player still on the board at #13?!"

[Critty]

You are agreeing with my position, which is that less than 34" is not ideal. By not ideal, I mean that it is something that must be factored into the overall analysis.

Also, as another poster noted, there are degrees of separation from 34". Half an inch short of desired is worthy of some consideration. One inch short is worthy of additional consideration. An inch and a half or more short is worthy of still greater consideration. AVT and Christensen are the two shortest armed non-center OL candidates in the whole draft class, so they get lots of negative consideration. They almost certainly will not be playing LT in the NFL.

You can cite examples of successes to the contrary just like you can cite short QBs and slower WRs. But the point you keep missing is that teams do not typically draft assuming that the negative traits do not matter. Russell Wilson is a short and successful QB. He was also drafted in round 3, not round 1.

My discussion mainly deals with our pick at 1-13. I understand why Sewell can overcome his slightly short arms. There has been discussion about him having a superior anchor. If anyone is thinking about playing Slater at LT, that is a riskier proposition because his arms are even shorter and he weighs 25-30 pounds less than Sewell. He is just a smaller man. I have never suggested that he is absolutely incapable of playing LT in the NFL. What I have consistently said is that there is greater risk associated with picking a player like Slater because of his size issues.

There is always the risk that a player will be a bust, but teams can and should minimize that risk by avoiding as much risk of a bust as they can. If we had not signed Feiler and Aboushi, I think selecting Slater would have made tons of sense because he could fill one of 3 holes on the OL. But now we know that we have solid starters at OG, so the focus is really much more of an OT focus, which brings Slater's size issues into greater consideration because he may not upgrade us that much at OG, so what he adds is very limited if he can only play OG (at least in the short term). And, honestly, we should be able to get a quality OG later in the draft if that is our goal.

Can you list more Left tackles with 34 plus arms who made pro bowl vs my list of T Rex Tackles who made pro bowl as LT?

I'd still give many T Rex Tackles a chance before I would move them inside. Others don't even try.

I have Christensen in the 4th rd.

[Guest]

How long are Mike Tyson's arms? He did ok... How long are Melvin Ingram's arms? (At the risk of bringing up an old debate.) It's more important how the arms are used. Bossa is hugely successful because of how he uses what he has not because he has 33" arms...

As I said, all other things being equal, the longer arms is a desired trait. And Tyson most definitely did not do okay against elite boxers with longer arms (Douglas, Lewis, and to a lesser degree even Holyfield). Those opponents were all heavyweight champion level opponents. I am not talking about how Tyson did against some tall, long armed tomato can.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

The point is quick feet and fast hands best long arms in many instances. It's the big picture that matters most. The total package.

[like54ninjas]

I could go Farley/Little 1-2.

wu is a value shopper.

Assess the risk.
Consider the talent level.
Perfect fit re PON.

I’d be stoked!
How about we add Melifonwu @#77?

[Guest]

The point is quick feet and fast hands best long arms in many instances. It's the big picture that matters most. The total package.

Nobody is saying otherwise.

[Panamamike]

That may be true, but I do not think the team can simply assume that the development will happen and not have a plan B. The better scenario is that we look for competitive BPA pick at those positions early in the draft. If our recently drafted players develop, then we will have quality depth at both positions, which is great for us. Because we have what appears t be at least 3 positions of significant need and only two top 64 picks, I continue raise the possibility of signing Malik Hooker (an ex-Colt, so Telesco should automatically love him) to reduce the number of positions at which we are hurting in a bad way to two.

I think more likely scenario is that Adderley and Pipkins get some better, but that both positions will remain areas of weakness absent an upgrade that is presently not on the team.

I'm not sure I understand the interest in Malik hooker. What's the point if he can't stay healthy? He's only played in 36 games over 4 years. As a vet minimum to compete with other guys sure.... But you better be prepared to have a backup plan for the backup plan.

[Guest]

I'm not sure I understand the interest in Malik hooker. What's the point if he can't stay healthy? He's only played in 36 games over 4 years. As a vet minimum to compete with other guys sure.... But you better be prepared to have a backup plan for the backup plan.

His games played is almost an identical clone of Keenan Allen's through the same length of career. The point is that if he is healthy now (full recovery) and is otherwise not predisposed to further injury from a medical and/or common sense standpoint (see Verrett, Jason), then the odds are that he is not going to keep having injuries forever just as Allen has not over the years since he was injured a lot. The same holds true for Derwin James.

I have read that the one year prove it deal for Hooker could be done for as little as $2M. Now, I do not pretend to have any contacts around Hooker, so I cannot say anything about that other than that $2M on a one year deal for Hooker appears to be a fantastic deal if he is healthy.

He is a very good player. The only real issue has been his health. If healthy, he is much better than Adderley and I think Adderley can improve to the point that he is a decent reserve.

And, of course, as I have already stated, the value in signing Hooker for us in particular is that we have these three glaring needs (which most of us are discussing as only being two needs, but I think it is three) and at some point in the draft, you are not as likely to draft a guy who can start right away, which is no bueno with us having the cupboard functionally bare in terms of legitimate starters at three positions. So, I would much rather see that number as two and not three at the time of the draft.

Of course, if there is a compensatory pick issue involved with signing Hooker that could be circumvented by a post draft signing, then I am on board with that timing.

[Boltjolt]

Ive heard multiple OL experts such as Gil Brandt and others say that arm length is a huge issue for most OL trying to play OT, especially LT.... because best pass rushers are usually coming from that side and that side is usually the blind side for most QB's..... They also question Slater as an OT.....

True that there are some rare exceptions and one thing I have noticed about the exceptions it the rare exceptions are those whose every other skill and characteristic is off the charts. Their other skills make up for the shortness of their arms..... the reason longer arms is important is that the player with the longer arms has control and can hold......keeping the shorter armed player from grabbing him...... more important in pass blocking than run blocking..... this difference is more important than a rocket arm for a QB..... though if 2 QB's are smart and insanely accurate and one has a stronger arm, the stronger armed QB can reach more places on the field forcing defenses to cover more area,.,... also ball gets to receiver quicker...... and ball can be squeezed into tighter windows....

Most of the exceptions are HOFers or future HOFers..... question is, are these shorter armed OT's so exceptional that they can overcome that deficiency? Most say Sewell yes.... most experts go either way on Slater....... and most think AVT is best as an OG in NFL..... Many of the other OT's like Carmen(he said teams are telling him he may end up being a guard) are also going to end up being OG's.....

Ive read a number of people say that Chargers could use an all pro at OT or at OG so they would take Slater (if Sewell is gone) and try him at LT but if it does not work out, he will likely be an all pro at Guard..... so at least we fill a need for now and future with a great player.... so at least if he is not a flop like Fluker then we won't be hurting ourselves if we take Slater even if LT does not work out.....is Slater one of those exceptions? .......and what does coaching staff think of Pipkins???

As Staley said,....you just need OTs.

Pass rushers come from the other sides often. Von Miller was often changing sides during games. I believe Bosa has as well and may do that more often with this defense.

The exceptions are happening more often. Brees was undersized and is the career passing yards leader. Wilson and Murray are Under 6'. Mobile QBs are more conveyed now.

Gil Brandt is old school.

The only thing that isn't changing is, if your are slight of size, your will still get hurt.

[Bolt4Knob]

I could go Farley/Little 1-2.

wu is a value shopper.

Assess the risk.
Consider the talent level.
Perfect fit re PON.

If the injury thing for Farley isn't long term - this wouldn't be the worst scenario
But the Chargers have had issues with players and injuries and a bit leery of that with Farley
Little in the second - no issues

[wu-dai clan]

Gil wishes he had not thought of Baylor Bear Mike Singletary as "too short."

Of course Ed Jones was "Too Tall"
and at the same time not "too tall."

Huh-huh.

[wu-dai clan]

If the injury thing for Farley isn't long term - this wouldn't be the worst scenario
But the Chargers have had issues with players and injuries and a bit leery of that with Farley
Little in the second - no issues

It's a TT Special.