2021 Draft Discussion - Bolts Pick 13th

[Boltjolt]

The measurables of the best OTs clearly show otherwise. Really, there is no response to be made to that despite the semi-rare examples to the contrary, which prove nothing.

It proves you don't have to have 34" arms to succeed at LT because there is more to playing LT than using your arms. Feet matter a lot as well imo.
There are other OTs that aren't optimal height or have long arms succeeding while slow footed long arm taller guys have failed.

Just like you thinking a QB has to have a rocket arm, dozens of other QBs that don't have one have proved otherwise

[Lone Bolt]

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

It's from 2013...recent enough to be relevant, in my opinion...just posted in another thread, then came over here and saw the conversation....just some more info. Take it for what it's worth...but apparently no real evidence that having arms between 33 and 34 inches long means you can't be successful at offensive tackle in this league.

By the way, BJ...that's a pretty sharp sig mock, even with the 2nd round RB...I'll take JW if we can get that haul.

[Bolt Dude]

Nice to know the fans aren’t the only ones all split up about this.

[like54ninjas]

It proves you don't have to have 34" arms to succeed at LT because there is more to playing LT than using your arms. Feet matter a lot as well imo.
There are other OTs that aren't optimal height or have long arms succeeding while slow footed long arm taller guys have failed.

Just like you thinking a QB has to have a rocket arm, dozens of other QBs that don't have one have proved otherwise

Sewell and Jenkins tape show solid technical skills in displacing a longer limbed defender’s hand/arm from body contact. This allows them to control the vast majority of reps regardless of the opponents length advantage along with their overall size, athleticism, and grip strength.
This technical flaw is Little’s main issue in passpro. He released 3 different training clips and showed on his proday that this has been a focus.
All 3 have the skillset to be highly successful NFL OTs.

Another factor we don’t talk about enough when concerning Oline play is domination blocks.
Allowing JH10 3.5+ seconds, pancakes, 5+ yard drive blocks, combo to second level seal blocks, 2 defenders wash/combo blocks, open field movement block on 2nd/3rd level defender.
These are chunk play igniters and late game soul takers.

[Bolt Dude]

Sewell and Jenkins tape show solid technical skills in displacing a longer limbed defender’s hand/arm from body contact. This allows them to control the vast majority of reps regardless of the opponents length advantage along with their overall size, athleticism, and grip strength.
This technical flaw is Little’s main issue in passpro. He released 3 different training clips and showed on his proday that this has been a focus.
All 3 have the skillset to be highly successful NFL OTs.

Another factor we don’t talk about enough when concerning Oline play is domination blocks.
Allowing JH10 3.5+ seconds, pancakes, 5+ yard drive blocks, combo to second level seal blocks, 2 defenders wash/combo blocks, open field movement block on 2nd/3rd level defender.
These are chunk play igniters and late game soul takers.

Jenkins has got the ‘bait and swat’ technique down to a science.

[Guest]

I'm 3 days into a 2 week Covid Quarantine....youngest has it. I can't spend everyday of the next two weeks leading up to the draft, talking about Darrisaw...in a year with a possible 5 QBs going top 10, the Chargers at #13 are likely to see a top 10 prospect...I think Darrisaw is a decent prospect, but not top 10 caliber, which is why I am not hot on picking him....but the Darrisaw fans think more highly of him...or at least I hope so, if they are gonna pick him at 13...I hope not just so they can check off the LT box....

Anyway, Darrisaw fans get their wish....he is a quality Blue Chip prospect...and now he is gone top 10.
1. Jags- Trevor Lawrance
2. Jets- Zach Wilson
3. 49rs- Mac Jones
4. ATL- Justine Fields
5. Cincy- Penei Sewell
6. Fins- Ja'marr Chase
7. Lions- Kyle Pitts
8. CAR- Christian Darrisaw
9. Donks- Micah Parsons
10. Boys- Rashawn Slater
11. Giants- Patrick Surtain
12. Philly- Joe Horn
13. Bolts-???

There....no Slater, no Horn, no Darrisaw....now what do you do? I think there is gonna be a 5th QB....but what if there isn't? What if the top ten teams are done...and NE and Chicago and WFT don't blink? What if the usual suspects....top corners and tackles....are gone? Something new to argue about....

Caleb Farley....is his back really ok?
AVT, JOK, Waddle, Moerig....all slam dunk picks...but none of these guys play LT or CB...can we find starters in the second and third, affording us to pick one of these guys?
Tevin Jenkins....can he play on the left side?
Phillips, Ojulari...pass rush could be sick...very tempting.
Cosmi, Little, Brown, Radunz....etc., etc.,.....do we get desperate and reach for need?

No trade back, TBP.....who you got?

In the above scenario, the top choices appear to be Farley and Waddle and I would put them in that order.

[Guest]

I don't think people are factoring in enough how much it hurt the development of young players last season with no live off-season work, no inter squad scrimmages. In my opinion guys like pipkins (who is drafted based in athletic traits with a huge jump in competition) and a developmental project and Adderley who miss most of his rookie year. It was not only the rookie class who were hurt by such an odd offseason regimen. Hopefully, training camps will be full throttle this year as it will be very important seasons for both these young players and many others across the league who have been held back in their development due to circumstances beyond their control. The offseason is the time where young players really get the opportunity to work on their craft, their techniques and do most of their developing.

That may be true, but I do not think the team can simply assume that the development will happen and not have a plan B. The better scenario is that we look for competitive BPA pick at those positions early in the draft. If our recently drafted players develop, then we will have quality depth at both positions, which is great for us. Because we have what appears t be at least 3 positions of significant need and only two top 64 picks, I continue raise the possibility of signing Malik Hooker (an ex-Colt, so Telesco should automatically love him) to reduce the number of positions at which we are hurting in a bad way to two.

I think more likely scenario is that Adderley and Pipkins get some better, but that both positions will remain areas of weakness absent an upgrade that is presently not on the team.

[Guest]

That’s hindsight. The injury thing sucked and probably ruined his career. Ironic since he was never injured in college.

It was not hindsight at all. Te'o struggled against Alabama, the one team that clearly had NFL caliber players on it. Everyone could see that. Everyone could see how he was physically limited at the combine. This issues were obvious. Sometimes good college players do not have what it takes to be good NFL players. That is part of the reason why teams value the combine.

To be clear, Te'o played poorly when he was healthy. He was not good at all. The injury issues were just the icing on the poor draft pick cake.

[Critty]

The measurables of the best OTs clearly show otherwise. Really, there is no response to be made to that despite the semi-rare examples to the contrary, which prove nothing.

You haven't proved anything except that you love to argue and act like your opinions and conjecture are facts.

I get that 34 or more is ideal. And there are great left tackles that have those prototype traits. no doubt. And that is the nfl trend to want those arm at 34 or above.

But as Staley tweeted. He extended those T rex arms and laughs in your face about measurables.

All these player made pro bowl as left tackles with T Rex arms Staley, Peters, Thomas, Boselli, Samuels, Matthews, Long, Hopkins, Faneca, Glenn, Light, Clifton, Gross, Roos, Deihl, Penn, Lewan.

And Sewell could be another and if Walker Little plays left tackle at a pro bowl level in his future that will be another. Slater if he can get it done will be another.

How long were Anthony Munoz arms?

If my arms are 33 but I'm quick out of my stance and my hands fire and get on you before yours get to me, you could have the reach advantage but I've already won, so your longer arms did what there? Like a boxer. Your reach did what if I already moved like a butterfly closed the distance and then stung like a bee by putting a straight right through your teeth.
All I'm saying is I'm giving players who performed at a high level at left tackle a chance to see what they can do in mini camp and pre-season vs 1st team starters before I move them inside. To start off by saying T Rex arms he is a guard, I really hope that is what all the scouts think of Sewell-OT and let him fall to #13.

:stirpot::larry:

[Guest]

TPB has a blind spot,
and it's Moehrig.

Moehrig the player
and
Moehrig the role.

Ask Tomlin how he feels about Minkah (the comp for Moehrig.)

Ask Fangio how he feels about Justin Simmons (the closest thing to the defense Staley runs.)

:coffee:

I have seen Jesse bates as the comp for Moehrig. Nowhere have a I seen Moehrig as a top 15 draft candidate. He is usually listed as a bottom half of the first round pick. The team could consider him in trading back in, but I would rather have one of the top CBs in that scenario (if we do not take one at #13).

Simmons as selected with a 3C pick by Denver. Of course, I would take Moehrig if he were available at that point, but that seems about 100% not likely to happen.

[Guest]

I might go with Barmore-DL
You see teams like 49ers or Washington continue to load up at DL and can tell it has really helped their defense.
If we can't get a good trench player on offense. Then why not go defensive trencher. And Barmore played in an odd front so he fits the Staley defense.

Barmore is not worth 1-13, which is why that is unlikely to happen.

[Guest]

If you can think of a better boxer with short arms, be my guest to use him as an example instead.

That misses the point. All other things being equal, the longer armed boxer has the advantage. Reach is a desired trait in boxing.