2023 Mock Draft Thread

[powderblueboy]

Right now, I wouldn't want Washington at #21.
However, i feel he is a better fit with what the Chargers currently have,
and i think he has a higher upside than Kincaid.

On my more dour side, he might be little more than a first rate blocking tight end,
and a reliable safety valve guy.

Kincaid is Everett's replacement.
Two tight ends on the field who can't block next year? All right, let's roll!

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

you thought Winslow was a decent blocker? I'd beg to differ, respectfully. he was below average as a blocker. i didnt care.

unless you were talking about blocking PKs in playoff games

'Decent' isn't exactly high praise.

[SAY OW 55]

Right now, I wouldn't want Washington at #21.
However, i feel he is a better fit with what the Chargers currently have,
and i think he has a higher upside than Kincaid.

On my more dour side, he might be little more than a first rate blocking tight end,
and a reliable safety valve guy.

Kincaid is Everett's replacement.
Two tight ends on the field who can't block next year? All right, let's roll!

Washington is going to be more than a blocking tight end. I’m looking at more upside then Bowers. He can run routes and make plays.when you have a Quarterback like Herbert. This can be special. I’m talking All pro levels. Gronk only played with Brady. But Brady knew where to find him.

[Boltjolt]

I was adamantly opposed to drafting a tight end early: but i'm starting to warm up to Washington.

I see some Gronk in him: can he track the football as well as Gronk? That's what I want to know.
He seems somewhat capable

He's very raw, but will learn how to use his body more effectively to control defenders and create space, instead of just outmuscling dbs for the ball in the air.
Then he'll get open more readily on deeper patterns. He's never going to be a precise route runner, accelerating out of cuts, etc.
He's no Antonio Gates, he's a Gronk type. He's of course an exceptional blocker.

They could use Kincaid, but he just doesn't offer enough for me.

His 4.71 speed won't get him behind anyone in the NFL (unlike college),
and I don't see much from him other than getting to open spots behind linebackers .... which is nice, and important for tight ends, but not enough.

Nice hands, and nice anticipation of where the ball is going to be,
but his actual route running, beating dbs at the top of his route,
or using his body to create space before the throw - i'm not seeing it.
He's a yac guy in college, but won't be in the pros.

He's 6' 3.5", with 32.5" arms; he's a smaller target than Mwub; he's much slower than Mdub.
He didn't do any vertical test: one would assume it is not very good.
Some NFL corners are actually longer than him and far more explosive to the catch point: he doesn't have a ghost of a chance against them.
He has one year of very good production in college.
How would Pac 10 coordinators prepare to take away what Utah likes doing with him: we'll never know.
He has no experience adjusting to teams taking that stuff away.

Yeah, he can learn how to block adequately by the time of his 2nd contract. But he's inadequate now and a 5th year senior to boot
- so he's had 1 - 2 years more of physical development than other draftees.
He'll always be limited due to his size and straight line speed.
He's not a 1rst rounder to me. He has a solid floor.

Hard pass.

Disagree with nearly all of this.

Gronk ran a 4.68, got by many DBs and LBs. Isn't twitchy in his movements just knows how to run a route and get open.
You don't need blazing speed to get open on seam routes.

Kincaid has very good body control and excellent hands. I don't know what you are looking at.
Did you really watch his tape?
I don't know where you got that 4.71 from either.

He didn't do any run drills because he had a back injury that he played with in the PAC 12 championship game, then had minor surgery. Obviously you didn't know that.

Gronk also had a back injury coming out so don't say that's a red flag. It was reported to be minor.

Kincaid is a ok blocker, won't knock your socks off but he can improve like Gates did who wasn't that great a blocker but improved to average.

One of Kincaids college seasons was during the COVID pandemic where he played 1 game and shut er down.
Slater didn't play even 1 game that year.
He also played 2 season at USD before he went to Utah.

Sorry, I'm throwing your eval in the trashcan.

BTW, Jeremiah moved Kincaid up 2 spots to #9 in his newest top 50, which even I wonder about that.
Sure you can say he is perhaps over valuing him but I'd say he knows what he is looking at better than us.

[beachcomber]

I like the Darnell talk if it pushes Kincaid down the board, as think Dalton is the more likely Pro Bowler, and Washington.... not so much,

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

I like the Darnell talk if it pushes Kincaid down the board, as think Dalton is the more likely Pro Bowler, and Washington.... not so much,

Tight ends don't generally get Pro Bowl recognition for blocking, so I would care if Washington went to the Pro Bowl simply because he didn't produce Kelce-type stats. If Washington was consistently mowing down defenders as a blocker, but only got 35 catches in the season? I'd be ecstatic!

It's not as if Herb has no other targets, and would be forced to rely on Washington. Not a situation where the rookie would have that kind of pressure.

[powderblueboy]

Disagree with nearly all of this.

Gronk ran a 4.68, got by many DBs and LBs. Isn't twitchy in his movements just knows how to run a route and get open.
You don't need blazing speed to get open on seam routes.

Kincaid has very good body control and excellent hands. I don't know what you are looking at.
Did you really watch his tape?
I don't know where you got that 4.71 from either.

He didn't do any run drills because he had a back injury that he played with in the PAC 12 championship game, then had minor surgery. Obviously you didn't know that.

Gronk also had a back injury coming out so don't say that's a red flag. It was reported to be minor.

Kincaid is a ok blocker, won't knock your socks off but he can improve like Gates did who wasn't that great a blocker but improved to average.

One of Kincaids college seasons was during the COVID pandemic where he played 1 game and shut er down.
Slater didn't play even 1 game that year.
He also played 2 season at USD before he went to Utah.

Sorry, I'm throwing your eval in the trashcan.

BTW, Jeremiah moved Kincaid up 2 spots to #9 in his newest top 50, which even I wonder about that.
Sure you can say he is perhaps over valuing him but I'd say he knows what he is looking at better than us.

No problem.

I hadn't seen the PAC 10 championship game until now - yeah, he was horrible.
He must have whiffed on 5 blocks, and got pushed around by a cb near the goal line.
Don't play this guy injured, only when he's close to 100 %.

BTW, The 4.71 s - 40 came from his pro day .... typically a faster time, so one should add around 0.5 s to it.
He plays on synthetic turf at Utah, that helps one think he plays faster than his time.
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/...TE-Utah

If you watched his other games, you certainly should have noticed that Utah rarely runs to his side, or wants him to be an online blocker.
They send him in motion pulling through gaps: is that a bread and butter play for the Chargers? Otherwise, he will be a completely useless blocker starting out in the NFL.
Perhaps its his size and lack of experience at the position. Maybe by the time of his 2nd contract you say?

I don't disagree with you on Kincaid's hands and body control - that could describe Dylan Cantrell as well: a far better blocker.
Kincaid played mostly basketball in high school and very little football. He probably was an off guard and not banging down in the paint.


But much of what I wrote is indisputable: for an NFL tight end he will be of slightly less than average speed, less than average size, and lacking in length and explosion.
These are statistical facts, not subject to anyone's judgement. He is a smaller target and slower than Mdub, this is also not a debatable item.

Our Ute fan who lives next to the stadium doesn't want him: says that he's a product of the Ute system. Has he watched too much of him and you just the right amount?
I can see how Kincaid is just a product of the Ute system: in terms of pass routes, they just ask him to run down field or curl in after 5 yards, not much.
He has a quick jump cut after the catch, which is nice: NFL defenders will get use to it.

Were you actually comparing him to Gronk? They don't compare, use somebody else.

Don't get me wrong, the Chargers could use him.....i'd say he has a decent floor as a pass catcher.
I can't really be certain, because he generally runs down the field without anyone putting a hand on him.
I don't think that will continue at the next level. I think it might be a problem.

I don't want him at #21.

[Topcat]

Tight ends don't generally get Pro Bowl recognition for blocking, so I would care if Washington went to the Pro Bowl simply because he didn't produce Kelce-type stats. If Washington was consistently mowing down defenders as a blocker, but only got 35 catches in the season? I'd be ecstatic!

It's not as if Herb has no other targets, and would be forced to rely on Washington. Not a situation where the rookie would have that kind of pressure.

Washington would be a great safety valve/hot read to extend 3rd downs, among other talents...

[electricgold]

• 28.
  
  Darnell Washington
  TE Georgia
  
• 
  54.
  
  Jahmyr Gibbs
  RB Alabama
• 
  56.
  
  Antonio Johnson
  S Texas A&M
  
• 
  86.
  
  Bryce Ford-Wheaton
  WR West Virginia
  
• 
  92.
  
  Byron Young
  EDGE Tennessee
  
• 
  125.
  
  Dorian Williams
  LB Tulane
• 
  168.
  
  Juice Scruggs
  OC Penn State
  
• 
  180.
  
  Atonio Mafi
  OG UCLA
  

• 
  199.
  
  Karl Brooks
  DT Bowling Green
  
• 
  200.
  
  Daniel Scott
  S California
• 
  209.
  
  Antoine Green
  WR North Carolina
  

[Boltjolt]

No problem.

I hadn't seen the PAC 10 championship game until now - yeah, he was horrible.
He must have whiffed on 5 blocks, and got pushed around by a cb near the goal line.
Don't play this guy injured, only when he's close to 100 %.

BTW, The 4.71 s - 40 came from his pro day .... typically a faster time, so one should add around 0.5 s to it.
He plays on synthetic turf at Utah, that helps one think he plays faster than his time.
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/...TE-Utah

If you watched his other games, you certainly should have noticed that Utah rarely runs to his side, or wants him to be an online blocker.
They send him in motion pulling through gaps: is that a bread and butter play for the Chargers? Otherwise, he will be a completely useless blocker starting out in the NFL.
Perhaps its his size and lack of experience at the position. Maybe by the time of his 2nd contract you say?

I don't disagree with you on Kincaid's hands and body control - that could describe Dylan Cantrell as well: a far better blocker.
Kincaid played mostly basketball in high school and very little football. He probably was an off guard and not banging down in the paint.


But much of what I wrote is indisputable: for an NFL tight end he will be of slightly less than average speed, less than average size, and lacking in length and explosion.
These are statistical facts, not subject to anyone's judgement. He is a smaller target and slower than Mdub, this is also not a debatable item.

Our Ute fan who lives next to the stadium doesn't want him: says that he's a product of the Ute system. Has he watched too much of him and you just the right amount?
I can see how Kincaid is just a product of the Ute system: in terms of pass routes, they just ask him to run down or curl in after 5 yards.
He has a quick jump cut after the catch, which is nice: NFL defenders will get use to it.

Were you actually comparing him to Gronk? They don't compare, use somebody else.

Don't get me wrong, the Chargers could use him.....i'd say he has a decent floor as a pass catcher.
I can't really be certain, because he generally runs down the field without anyone putting a hand on him.
I don't think that will continue at the next level. I think it might be a problem.

I don't want him at #21.

He didn't run at his pro day, still recovering from the surgery. You got false info.
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-u...alton-kincaid/

I wasn't comparing him to Gronk lol. Just mentioned his speed which was only 3 hundredths of a second off from the false time you posted for Kincaid,...and I mentioned he also had a back injury from college.

And the dude has great hands, good body control to adjust for passes and has YAC ability.
And correct, He also didn't start playing football til his senior year in highschool. Played basketball. What possition I don't know, and don't matter. You make many assumptions.

I don't really care what your Ute neighbor says. I like to see for myself.
Why would you take his word for it? Do you believe everyone here who is a fan?
Do you take your neighbor Ute fans opinion over Daniel Jeremiah?

He may never be a great blocker I'll admit that, idk, but everything else he offers is pretty good. And if we don't get him id sure hate to see him in our division.

[dmac_bolt]

I dont know all this fancy scout talk, but Kincaid ran away from defenders if they pivoted for even a second the wrong way, Washington does not. I can see Washington having huge value in a 50/50 balanced attack as he will be a 6th OL. He will get catches with his huge radius and post-up ability to wall off defenders, he can move chains and maybe be a big body target in RZ - Herbie would know how to put it where it should be for him. He just wont be yacking the field apart after a catch like Kincaid can and will. But Kincaid cannot block for shit, and I think OCs and HCs will be less enamored with a TE that cannot block than we are. This is still the NF-fucking-L, damnit.

Better off just trading up for Bijan - he’s LT+WalterPayton+pickanotherbackyoulove!

[Topcat]

• 28.
  
  Darnell Washington
  TE Georgia
  
• 
  54.
  
  Jahmyr Gibbs
  RB Alabama
• 
  56.
  
  Antonio Johnson
  S Texas A&M
  
• 
  86.
  
  Bryce Ford-Wheaton
  WR West Virginia
  
• 
  92.
  
  Byron Young
  EDGE Tennessee
  
• 
  125.
  
  Dorian Williams
  LB Tulane
• 
  168.
  
  Juice Scruggs
  OC Penn State
  
• 
  180.
  
  Atonio Mafi
  OG UCLA
  

• 
  199.
  
  Karl Brooks
  DT Bowling Green
  
• 
  200.
  
  Daniel Scott
  S California
• 
  209.
  
  Antoine Green
  WR North Carolina
  

Like those first two picks, but seriously, don't think Gibbs will be there at #54...