2024 Chargers Draft Superthread - Prospect Discussion - Draft Has Started

[charger1_sj]

Absolutely! Rankings help us explain trends and the sometimes unexplainable... they are susceptible to hot rolls, matchups, coaching, and timely turnovers. The KC/Philly game produced 73 combined points! But don't tell me the 182 passing yards by MaHommes was the total reason KC won. Don't tell me defense doesn't matter... that the only way to beat KC is to outscore them.

The #1, #2, and #3 scoring defenses appeared in this year's Conference Championship games. Those are simple facts... discount that if you must. Just don't try and convince me that Harbaugh and Roman are going to try and replicate what Reid/MaHommes/Kelce have going... that would be like trying to win the Kick Boxing Championship on one leg.

KC rushed for over 150 yards in the Eagles game. That also counts towards offense. Mahomes won the game. With over 5 minutes left and the game tied he drove his team down the field for a winning FG, left about 10 seconds for the Eagles to do something. Key run of about 25 yards by Mahomes on the drive. So yes he did win the game. He did almost the same against SF, a top D that could not stop him when the chips were down.

But no I do not expect Harbaugh to go the Reid/Mahomes way. Although Harbaugh will build a strong D, just like Reid. Harbaugh will do it his way, and if it fails he will change. Note that Harbaugh almost got canned at Michigan. He fired his staff, and changed the way he approached the game. So he is not married to any one particular system. If Roman's way doesn't pan out you can expect change. This guy does not like to lose.

[Boltnut]

You don't need an Oline full of 1rst rounders to run the ball.
Fuaga /Mims & Thomas / Leggett / JPJ / Murphy / Newton would be nice.

Get your linebacker on day 2.

Don't fall in love with anyone.
The trade with Minny is not baked into this draft.
Don't throw yourself at the Jets to move down as some here are desperate to do.

True. But your mid/late round fliers better produce better than Pipkins. If they don't... cut bait.
My fascination with a trade-back has more to do with the possibilities on defense than an infatuation with a particular player @#5 or #11.

If the LB you pick @#23 will be twice as good as the LB you get @#37... then I'm not worried about the Day# or draft# as much as I am with making the whole team better... and getting the guy that allows your new DC to thrive. My infatuation with Edgerrin Cooper has more to do with his skillset. Solid run and solid pass... with an extra side of blitz. The extra side of blitz makes him very attractive @#23. Who's coming... is it Cooper or Derwin. Enquiring minds want to know. Patty MaHommes wants to know.

I'll make which ever trade makes my team better as a whole. If it's the Jets @#10... so be it. If it's the Vikings @#11... even better. Trader Joe's doors open early. Supply and demand drive prices.

[Boltnut]

KC rushed for over 150 yards in the Eagles game. That also counts towards offense. Mahomes won the game. With over 5 minutes left and the game tied he drove his team down the field for a winning FG, left about 10 seconds for the Eagles to do something. Key run of about 25 yards by Mahomes on the drive. So yes he did win the game. He did almost the same against SF, a top D that could not stop him when the chips were down.

But no I do not expect Harbaugh to go the Reid/Mahomes way. Although Harbaugh will build a strong D, just like Reid. Harbaugh will do it his way, and if it fails he will change. Note that Harbaugh almost got canned at Michigan. He fired his staff, and changed the way he approached the game. So he is not married to any one particular system. If Roman's way doesn't pan out you can expect change. This guy does not like to lose.

The problem with this reasoning is that you've thrown the other 70 points in the trash.
The one nugget you provide is the fact that you don't want the ball in the hands of Patty MaHommes the last 2 minutes of a close game.
You want to be controlling the clock at the end of the game with a balanced offense... and MaHommes on the bench watching.
Aiden O'Connel and the Raiders did that last year. Russel Wison and the Broncos did that last year. Herbert can do that.
Their defenses harassed MaHommes and forced turnovers. Chargers can do that... but they'll need to draft the right personnel.
Their 30th best pass defense won't get that done.

Football is a lot more than 2 players at the end of a game.

[charger1_sj]

The problem with this reasoning is that you've thrown the other 70 points in the trash.
The one nugget you provide is the fact that you don't want the ball in the hands of Patty MaHommes the last 2 minutes of a close game.
You want to be controlling the clock at the end of the game with a balanced offense... and MaHommes on the bench watching.
Aiden O'Connel and the Raiders did that last year. Russel Wison and the Broncos did that last year. Herbert can do that.
Their defenses harassed MaHommes and forced turnovers. Chargers can do that... but they'll need to draft the right personnel.
Their 30th best pass defense won't get that done.

Football is a lot more than 2 players at the end of a game.

No you do not. It is understood that circumstances that had little to do with Mahomes led up the moment where the game was on
the line. We had multiple games where we could have won games by finishing a drive. We could not. That's a big difference between
a team like the Chiefs and Pats of old and other teams. I think they call it being clutch.

You may or may not have the ball at the end of the game to control the clock. A run game is important for many reasons. But it will
not win games for you. If all you have is a run game with 2 minutes and 75 yards to go, you just lost the game. On the other hand
having a lead and running the game to finish off the game works well. But here is the catch. You do not get the lead late in the game
by running the football. Running can keep the game close. If the other team is better than you then running the ball can keep you
in the ball game. On the other hand if you are the better team you pass the ball to take the lead, run to keep it.

With that said, if you cannot run the football you will eventually get into trouble. The run game keeps the defense honest, sets up
play action and can get you to stay away from 3rd and long situations as well as converting on 3rd or 4th and short. So it has it's
place. Now this is very important. Any run game can be stopped by loading up the box. If all you have is a run game and no
vertical threat you also run into serious problems. Against the better CBs in the league that can go one on one you better have
a passing game to keep the safeties away from the LOS.

[electricgold]

It could happen...

F_9GO_TXIAMF03k.jpg

[dmac_bolt]

No you do not. It is understood that circumstances that had little to do with Mahomes led up the moment where the game was on
the line. We had multiple games where we could have won games by finishing a drive. We could not. That's a big difference between
a team like the Chiefs and Pats of old and other teams. I think they call it being clutch.

You may or may not have the ball at the end of the game to control the clock. A run game is important for many reasons. But it will
not win games for you. If all you have is a run game with 2 minutes and 75 yards to go, you just lost the game. On the other hand
having a lead and running the game to finish off the game works well. But here is the catch. You do not get the lead late in the game
by running the football. Running can keep the game close. If the other team is better than you then running the ball can keep you
in the ball game. On the other hand if you are the better team you pass the ball to take the lead, run to keep it.

With that said, if you cannot run the football you will eventually get into trouble. The run game keeps the defense honest, sets up
play action and can get you to stay away from 3rd and long situations as well as converting on 3rd or 4th and short. So it has it's
place. Now this is very important. Any run game can be stopped by loading up the box. If all you have is a run game and no
vertical threat you also run into serious problems. Against the better CBs in the league that can go one on one you better have
a passing game to keep the safeties away from the LOS.

but what if you run really fast?

[charger1_sj]

but what if you run really fast?

Doesn't work unless your Mahomes.

[Boltnut]

No you do not. It is understood that circumstances that had little to do with Mahomes led up the moment where the game was on
the line. We had multiple games where we could have won games by finishing a drive. We could not. That's a big difference between
a team like the Chiefs and Pats of old and other teams. I think they call it being clutch.

You may or may not have the ball at the end of the game to control the clock. A run game is important for many reasons. But it will
not win games for you. If all you have is a run game with 2 minutes and 75 yards to go, you just lost the game. On the other hand
having a lead and running the game to finish off the game works well. But here is the catch. You do not get the lead late in the game
by running the football. Running can keep the game close. If the other team is better than you then running the ball can keep you
in the ball game. On the other hand if you are the better team you pass the ball to take the lead, run to keep it.

With that said, if you cannot run the football you will eventually get into trouble. The run game keeps the defense honest, sets up
play action and can get you to stay away from 3rd and long situations as well as converting on 3rd or 4th and short. So it has it's
place. Now this is very important. Any run game can be stopped by loading up the box. If all you have is a run game and no
vertical threat you also run into serious problems. Against the better CBs in the league that can go one on one you better have
a passing game to keep the safeties away from the LOS.

We couldn't finish drives because we had no running game... we were way too predictable. Defenses simply blitzed and dropped everyone else into passing lanes. No one WR (or TE) can save you from that. Your best chance to beat the Chiefs is to sustain a nice 6 minute march to the endzone at the end of the game. It's the only proven way to beat the Chiefs. We've done it... others have done it. Trying to air it out against the Chiefs defense in the last minute will be a colossal failure... every time. They've invested in their DL, LB's, and secondary. You will be trying to attack their strength.

In the unfortunate event that the Chiefs get the ball with 2 minutes left... you better have the defense to cover and pressure. There is no 1st round WR or TE that will help you defend. They'll be sitting helplessly on the sideline watching the Chiefs shred your 4th and 5th round defenders.

[LarryAW]

disagree!..... defense does not win championships,.... has NOT for a very long time because or crazy rules changes....Chiefs beat the 2 or 3 best NFL defenses that were loaded with pro bowlers..and easily out scored them whenever it counted...... but none of them could stop Kelsey (with no WR threats) from doing whatever he needed to do to win 2 consecutive SB's...... REID is the absolute best! and he knows what positions are important in building a championship team using the current NFL rules..... if you are going to emulate or breat them, you will have to do what they do ...only BETTER!!!!

2 SB wins in a row without spending any big money on WR's..... shows everyone the path...... the great TE is a matchup nightmare like a pocket battleship.... tooo fast for the big guys to catch him and too big for the little guys to tackle him..... a great WR can be shut down by a great CB..... great TE's cannot be stopped when it really counts... and in red zone..... and greart TE's cost a fraction of spoiled ass great WR's.....

Chargers offense has had moments, but not been great since Gates or Winslow....... you still need a defense and you can build one because you are not paying extreme money for WR's.....who as Walsh said are a dime a dozen.....

The Chiefs' DEFENSE was 2nd in total yards allowed to the Browns, and 2nd in Points Allowed, 17.3, to the #1 Ravens' 16.5.

They were "15th" in Points Per Game. Mahomes is Mahomes, but they had as good a defense as any team in the league last year.

[Topcat]

Smart post. Keys to fundamentally change our D's success are, in order:
1. A penetrating disruptive DT that collapses the front of the pocket and, better, can get to a QB
2. Sticky tough cover corner(s) that can press and disrupt receivers release at the LOS and stay with them tight as ticks for 3+ seconds
3. A strong fast ILB that can blitz the QB AND cover the TE

#3--good addition...

[wu-dai clan]

Smart post. Keys to fundamentally change our D's success are, in order:
1. A penetrating disruptive DT that collapses the front of the pocket and, better, can get to a QB
2. Sticky tough cover corner(s) that can press and disrupt receivers release at the LOS and stay with them tight as ticks for 3+ seconds
3. A strong fast ILB that can blitz the QB AND cover the TE

Oh good fucking grief.
Yeah sure.
Defensive coordinators across the league are taking notes.

[wu-dai clan]

^ This...the BEST way to limit Mahomes is to generate a strong, consistent pass rush, AND contain the edges, AND to keep a spy on him to avoid his scrambles, AND to have tight coverage on Kelce to avoid those damaging dumpoffs...we will need some solid press corners to allow us to do this. We already have three good Edge rushers in Bosa, Mack and Tuli, but we sorely need a solid, run-stuffing DT or two who can also pass rush...we can't totally shut down Mahomes, but a good D can limit the damage...

Hasn't worked-won't work.
Which is why I am calling for rebuilding the right side of our offensive line...
with attitude.