Future With Lynn?

[Boltjolt]

John McKay—Tampa Bay

Lol I also like his quote

We didn't tackle very well but made up for it by not blocking very well

Something like that lol

[NoMoreChillies]

I hear you.
but where would your opinion and feelings about Lynn be if every decision he made was the same, but....

Badgely made that kick vs Saints.

Williams or Parhnam held on to TD pass vs Raiders.

Facyson knock the ball down or ref kept flag in his pocket vs Denver.

Allen to Ekeler pitch play connected vs Panthers.

The team would be 7-3.
And Lynn would have done absolutely nothing different. Nada.

I have trouble believing many fans would be calling for his dismissal and replacement and list out all the reasons of this call and this comment and this timeout and this strategy.
Think it comes down to one thing. Wins. You are a good HC when you get enough of them, you are a bad HC when you don't.

But it's not that simple to me. I always start with overall roster talent and health of talent. And then I look a QB play. And then coaches. I don't want the HC doing the play calling. I want the OC and DC to do it. I don't blame the play call based on its result. I grade the call vs the front and alignment and coverage. If they have 8 in box and a 9th creeping up, then unless I got a massive dominant line that can run anyway, then I'm asking why not check to a pass and get them out of stacking the box. Or if they keep playing cover two deep, and we keep calling deep pass, pass, pass. Then I'm asking why not call some runs, and more runs and try and get them to drop a safety down into box to open up room for deep passes.
Steichen seems to balance things pretty well and set things up pretty well.

The one play call that bother me the most was a defensive call. Was 3rd quarter, 3 and 10 and Gus calls play that rushes 3. That should be a call when it 3rd and 30. So.....Lynn should be asking Gus what the hell on that play. I only saw it once last week. But once too many. I have a feeling Gus is gone after season is over. And again, I am hoping the replacement is Deryl Austin.

So much agree

but on this forum: when coaches win from 2 years ago its disregarded. When players make pro bowl 2 years ago they are regarded as still great players.

[21&500]

I hear you Cittty, I really do, but think you’re selling a lot of us short.
Judging a HC is very complicated, and no doubt that if we would have won those games you mention, there would be a lot less animosity towards Lynn.
no one typically argues against results, but I firmly believe these specific criticisms about Lynn would still be valid because they are patterns, more palatable, but valid.
speaking for myself, I call out negatives from wins often, and many others do too, which demonstrates a willingness to be fair; typically it’s met with accusations of being “negative” instead of being appreciated for tje careful and thoughtful analysis it is.
so I know it’s hard for anyone to start a sentence with a hypothetical but I sincerely believe I would have the same objections if our record was flipped, they would likely be less anger and frustration but there’s good reason for that, please entertain this...
when a HC is making the same “mistakes” and winning, you can’t really blame the guy for not changing, he has good reason to believe his decisions are leading to wins, even if they are literally the last plays of several games.
when the same HC keeps making the same mistakes and continues to lose, you can absolutely blame the guy for not changing SOMETHING, something to at least TRY to put their teams in a BETTER position so it doesn’t come down to that last play.
every player recognizes how they could have played better, but Lynn seems to not hold himself accountable as exemplified by continuing to make the same im game decisions, particularly, taking the ball away from Herbert
the other mistakes, like X and Os seem to be more shortcomings, rather than intentional choices.
regardless, they (HC) cannot keep telling themselves that because it came down to a play in the end, that it’s okay to continue making the same mistakes or not try something different. You can change personnel, coaches, experiment with play designs, SOMETHING.

this is literally the same problem with McCoy. Refused to try to improve his own performance by changing anything and instead counting on lucky breaks to justify their simple and one dimensional approach. When you take the job of HC you’re selling yourself as someone who can be entrusted with making necessary changes in a timely manner to have the best chance at winning games, both if these men did none of that because they weren’t capable of. If you accept a job yoi know you can’t do, you’re a fraud, and that’s what Lynn is, an absolute fraud who is hoping his players make those handful of plays to continue his disguise of a competent HC.
I’ll never be critical of a Charger fan supporting a Charger coach, I just think you’re wrong and literally (I realize this is like the 5th time I’ve used the word, but I mean it the most here) nothing would make me happier to be wrong and we make a playoff push. Nothing.

ill end my rant with what I tell my 3 girls, “I could be wrong, but I don’t think so”

cheers brother

[Critty]

21&500

A big reason I'm staying loyal to Lynn is the move to LA and the switch of QBs.

This team had two losing seasons in a row before Lynn. They franchise move to a new city and abandoned fans. And it was a marketing nightmare with the fight for LA.

But as a Chargers fan, I had 22 wins to celebrate right away after the move. Including a playoff win when the linebackers unit was decimated with injury.

An aging Rivers who has a bit left in the tank, had an big amount of turnovers in 2019. And they switch out QBs.

This new QB with no pre season looks very legit. And the new o-line addition have been a bit injured. And so has some of the better players, like Ekeler, James, Bosa and Harris.
So it's just seems premature to send Lynn packing based on his whole resume. I am very reluctant to start over with a new voice as I don't know if a new voice moves the needle as much as health and talent and reps and experience, which is why I voted in this thread for Lynn having one more full season with Herbert before any decision to change.

Of all year to give a HC the benefit of the doubt and another year, I think this pandemic season is one where it makes sense to me to give Lynn a mulligan.

I just have trouble thinking the same HC that tied for best record in AFC just the other year is not a good coach.

[jamrock]

I hear you.
but where would your opinion and feelings about Lynn be if every decision he made was the same, but....

Badgely made that kick vs Saints.

Williams or Parhnam held on to TD pass vs Raiders.

Facyson knock the ball down or ref kept flag in his pocket vs Denver.

Allen to Ekeler pitch play connected vs Panthers.

The team would be 7-3.
And Lynn would have done absolutely nothing different. Nada.

I have trouble believing many fans would be calling for his dismissal and replacement and list out all the reasons of this call and this comment and this timeout and this strategy.
Think it comes down to one thing. Wins. You are a good HC when you get enough of them, you are a bad HC when you don't.

But it's not that simple to me. I always start with overall roster talent and health of talent. And then I look a QB play. And then coaches. I don't want the HC doing the play calling. I want the OC and DC to do it. I don't blame the play call based on its result. I grade the call vs the front and alignment and coverage. If they have 8 in box and a 9th creeping up, then unless I got a massive dominant line that can run anyway, then I'm asking why not check to a pass and get them out of stacking the box. Or if they keep playing cover two deep, and we keep calling deep pass, pass, pass. Then I'm asking why not call some runs, and more runs and try and get them to drop a safety down into box to open up room for deep passes.
Steichen seems to balance things pretty well and set things up pretty well.

The one play call that bother me the most was a defensive call. Was 3rd quarter, 3 and 10 and Gus calls play that rushes 3. That should be a call when it 3rd and 30. So.....Lynn should be asking Gus what the hell on that play. I only saw it once last week. But once too many. I have a feeling Gus is gone after season is over. And again, I am hoping the replacement is Deryl Austin.

agree, we are 4 plays from 7-3.

what does that say about your opinion that the talent isn’t there?

it is the most frustrating situation given those losses but it’s been that way for 2 years and I do t believe Lynn knows how to get over the hump. Within the games you mentioned were horrible blown leads against NO and Denver. You left TB out but that was a blown decision before the half and another second half collapse. Within those games were many failures to execute and make plays. When a team continues to fail in the clutch and during the game to execute basic situations we have to look at the coach. We can’t fire all the players and tho it may seem unfair or unjustified to you the NFL is a bottom line business and it comes down to your record.

if AJ Green hadn’t been called for pushing off we’d be 2-8. If Campbell had been called for PI against the Jets we’d like be 1-9

[beachcomber]

I hear you.
but where would your opinion and feelings about Lynn be if every decision he made was the same, but....

Badgely made that kick vs Saints.

Williams or Parhnam held on to TD pass vs Raiders.

Facyson knock the ball down or ref kept flag in his pocket vs Denver.

Allen to Ekeler pitch play connected vs Panthers.

The team would be 7-3.
And Lynn would have done absolutely nothing different. Nada.

I have trouble believing many fans would be calling for his dismissal and replacement and list out all the reasons of this call and this comment and this timeout and this strategy.
Think it comes down to one thing. Wins. You are a good HC when you get enough of them, you are a bad HC when you don't.

But it's not that simple to me. I always start with overall roster talent and health of talent. And then I look a QB play. And then coaches. I don't want the HC doing the play calling. I want the OC and DC to do it. I don't blame the play call based on its result. I grade the call vs the front and alignment and coverage. If they have 8 in box and a 9th creeping up, then unless I got a massive dominant line that can run anyway, then I'm asking why not check to a pass and get them out of stacking the box. Or if they keep playing cover two deep, and we keep calling deep pass, pass, pass. Then I'm asking why not call some runs, and more runs and try and get them to drop a safety down into box to open up room for deep passes.
Steichen seems to balance things pretty well and set things up pretty well.

The one play call that bother me the most was a defensive call. Was 3rd quarter, 3 and 10 and Gus calls play that rushes 3. That should be a call when it 3rd and 30. So.....Lynn should be asking Gus what the hell on that play. I only saw it once last week. But once too many. I have a feeling Gus is gone after season is over. And again, I am hoping the replacement is Deryl Austin.

so is the assumption or inference that the other team ran the table, never goofed or stubbed their toe on their way to victory over us ??

sure seems like cherry picking as most every team in the League has near major miscues most every game/a play or coupla few that they'd like to have back.

when your team continually makes more of those than the other guys.... it's called a loss and a losing season.

[beachcomber]

21&500

A big reason I'm staying loyal to Lynn is the move to LA and the switch of QBs.

This team had two losing seasons in a row before Lynn. They franchise move to a new city and abandoned fans. And it was a marketing nightmare with the fight for LA.

But as a Chargers fan, I had 22 wins to celebrate right away after the move. Including a playoff win when the linebackers unit was decimated with injury.

An aging Rivers who has a bit left in the tank, had an big amount of turnovers in 2019. And they switch out QBs.

This new QB with no pre season looks very legit. And the new o-line addition have been a bit injured. And so has some of the better players, like Ekeler, James, Bosa and Harris.
So it's just seems premature to send Lynn packing based on his whole resume. I am very reluctant to start over with a new voice as I don't know if a new voice moves the needle as much as health and talent and reps and experience, which is why I voted in this thread for Lynn having one more full season with Herbert before any decision to change.

Of all year to give a HC the benefit of the doubt and another year, I think this pandemic season is one where it makes sense to me to give Lynn a mulligan.

I just have trouble thinking the same HC that tied for best record in AFC just the other year is not a good coach.

you really think that Lynn is the heart and soul of that locker room.... that he has the unequivocal support of the players in that locker room ??

yeah, he got double whammied w/a weak sauce Oline and now has both his pass rushing aces dinged up, and.... welcome to the NFL.

and what's been his de facto response/default ?? throwin' peoples under the bus.... how many more before he gets it right ??

and did he get it right before, or was it because of PR and the other "talent" on the roster ??

and is he doing much of anything that is righting the ship, or is JH surpassing most everyone's expectations in spite of his HC ??

[Critty]

so is the assumption or inference that the other team ran the table, never goofed or stubbed their toe on their way to victory over us ??

sure seems like cherry picking as most every team in the League has near major miscues most every game/a play or coupla few that they'd like to have back.

when your team continually makes more of those than the other guys.... it's called a loss and a losing season.

Yep. Its a loss and a losing season.

The Bengals could have sent game to OT. But it wasn't a game winning play.
im not talking about the back and forth during the game, plays made and mistakes by either team. As each could be said to help or hurt the cause.
I'm talking about a play that actually seals the deal at the very end. A kick, a catch, a pass defended. The actually game winning play not made.
After that I would look at turnover difference.
I've never seen any team play a perfect game. There is always human error.
I've seen superbowl lost by wide right and won by putting between the posts as time expired.
I've seen the catch by Dwight Clark. Sure all the other plays matter too. But kind of like in baseball all plays matter, but when you get to 9th inning tied or up 1 or down one. Those final plays can and do seal your final fate. An early mistake is so much better as you have plenty of time to overcome it in all sports. But when your in final minute of game up 1 or down 2, the clutch time crunch time, then that next play can be the game winner or loser depending on if you make it or miss it. The league is very competitive, a lot of games will be nip and tuck and come down to which team make the game winning plays at the end of the game. We haven't made enough of them. But the opportunities have been there in those games. So it makes me want to continue with Lynn. I see it as the players having opportunities right in front of them to get the win each and every week. And that is what I want to see....that the team has a chance to win each and every game. Now I need to see the players on the field cash in.

[Guest]

I hear you.
but where would your opinion and feelings about Lynn be if every decision he made was the same, but....

Badgely made that kick vs Saints.

Williams or Parhnam held on to TD pass vs Raiders.

Facyson knock the ball down or ref kept flag in his pocket vs Denver.

Allen to Ekeler pitch play connected vs Panthers.

The team would be 7-3.
And Lynn would have done absolutely nothing different. Nada.

I have trouble believing many fans would be calling for his dismissal and replacement and list out all the reasons of this call and this comment and this timeout and this strategy.
Think it comes down to one thing. Wins. You are a good HC when you get enough of them, you are a bad HC when you don't.

But it's not that simple to me. I always start with overall roster talent and health of talent. And then I look a QB play. And then coaches. I don't want the HC doing the play calling. I want the OC and DC to do it. I don't blame the play call based on its result. I grade the call vs the front and alignment and coverage. If they have 8 in box and a 9th creeping up, then unless I got a massive dominant line that can run anyway, then I'm asking why not check to a pass and get them out of stacking the box. Or if they keep playing cover two deep, and we keep calling deep pass, pass, pass. Then I'm asking why not call some runs, and more runs and try and get them to drop a safety down into box to open up room for deep passes.
Steichen seems to balance things pretty well and set things up pretty well.

The one play call that bother me the most was a defensive call. Was 3rd quarter, 3 and 10 and Gus calls play that rushes 3. That should be a call when it 3rd and 30. So.....Lynn should be asking Gus what the hell on that play. I only saw it once last week. But once too many. I have a feeling Gus is gone after season is over. And again, I am hoping the replacement is Deryl Austin.

,

That the games were lost just draws added attention to Lynn's mistakes. The mistakes were still made regardless the outcome. Norv Turner's mistakes (very predictable play calling, poor time management) still mattered even though the team was winning.

This season, the team still went early down run heavy and lost its momentum against New Orleans and repeated that against Denver in the worst way possible on all three of their final possessions, demonstrating a complete inability to recognize what was working and what was not working. And Lynn's inability to see the problem was reinforced when Lynn unveiled his early down run heavy game plan against Miami.

Even when the team went early down pass heavy and raced out to a lead against the Jets, Lynn still went early down run heavy and killed a key late drive that could have put the game away after having been shown for most of the game that the passing attack was the way to go.

Doing the same bad and failing thing in game after game shows that the coach either does not get it and/or is too wed to the style of play that he prefers. And both of those are huge problems.

Also, Lynn still butchered his use of timeouts against Las Vegas, which increased the odds that the game would be lost.

Lynn still chose to run the ball against Tampa Bay instead of kneeling on it when at his own 6 yard line and then went early down run heavy to open the third quarter, consolidating the momentum that Tampa Bay never should have had going into halftime. After the game, Lynn demonstrated that he had no clue about why the failure to kneel on the ball to end the first half was such a huge mistake.

The team still came out flat as a pancake against Carolina, which put them in the hole nearly from the outset. While that is a mixed player/coach responsibility, the coach is supposed to have his team ready to play and the team clearly was not ready to play.

Had Lynn done a better job of putting his team in the best position to win, none of the plays you mentioned would have mattered at all.

I have no sympathy at all for a head coach when the coach uses lame strategies and tactics that put his team in a position to lose when that result was easily avoidable.

[Boltjolt]

So much agree

but on this forum: when coaches win from 2 years ago its disregarded. When players make pro bowl 2 years ago they are regarded as still great players.

Adrian Phillips went to a PB and I still don't think he was that great a player and is doing next to nothing in NE.
But he was a good fit for how Gus used him. He was awful when he was used as just a safety.

Half this forum wasn't enamored over Gordon either. I've never been a big fan of Ingram, so your statement isn't quite true.

[Critty]

Some schmuck posted a statement of don't treat Lynn better than McCoy.

McCoy record as Chargers HC after 4 season. 27-37.
10 games under .500 with a veteran great QB still in prime.

Lynn 29-29 .500 record, transition from aging vet QB to a rookie QB.

Well Lynn resume has more wins in less games. And he also had to deal with moving to a new city with poor fan support. So .... Why would we treat him exactly the same in a bottom line business when his bottom line has more Wins.

They all should earn their own consequences based on their own resumes. Treating them the same when their win loss record is different is poor logic.

If you get 29 of 58 answer right on test and I get 27 of 64 right. We should get the same exact grade and same treatment?

:stirpot:

[Boltjolt]

I hear you.
but where would your opinion and feelings about Lynn be if every decision he made was the same, but....

Badgely made that kick vs Saints.

Williams or Parhnam held on to TD pass vs Raiders.

Facyson knock the ball down or ref kept flag in his pocket vs Denver.

Allen to Ekeler pitch play connected vs Panthers.

The team would be 7-3.
And Lynn would have done absolutely nothing different. Nada.

I have trouble believing many fans would be calling for his dismissal and replacement and list out all the reasons of this call and this comment and this timeout and this strategy.
Think it comes down to one thing. Wins. You are a good HC when you get enough of them, you are a bad HC when you don't.

But it's not that simple to me. I always start with overall roster talent and health of talent. And then I look a QB play. And then coaches. I don't want the HC doing the play calling. I want the OC and DC to do it. I don't blame the play call based on its result. I grade the call vs the front and alignment and coverage. If they have 8 in box and a 9th creeping up, then unless I got a massive dominant line that can run anyway, then I'm asking why not check to a pass and get them out of stacking the box. Or if they keep playing cover two deep, and we keep calling deep pass, pass, pass. Then I'm asking why not call some runs, and more runs and try and get them to drop a safety down into box to open up room for deep passes.
Steichen seems to balance things pretty well and set things up pretty well.

The one play call that bother me the most was a defensive call. Was 3rd quarter, 3 and 10 and Gus calls play that rushes 3. That should be a call when it 3rd and 30. So.....Lynn should be asking Gus what the hell on that play. I only saw it once last week. But once too many. I have a feeling Gus is gone after season is over. And again, I am hoping the replacement is Deryl Austin.

yes we could have better luck but you keep bringing up that pitch that didnt work as if it should have.
Those type of plays rarely work and would of been a luck play. Yes at times we have seen them work in different years apart, much like a hail mary is rare when it works which is a luck play.

We need to rely on the plays run most often in games more than a desperate gadget play.