Future With Lynn?

[Boltjolt]

saying their WR’s are better as a group while at the same time pointing out how Beasley has thrived under better coaching proves the point Chain and I were trying to make about the Buffalo roster. Are they more talented or just in a system and with coaching that produces better results? If you kept the rosters the same and flipped coaching staffs would the records be the same? I don’t think so

Beasley was always a good WR . Dallas just didnt like to use the slot WR much. So he is talented and as a group.......they have more talent at WR than we do. And why i want to draft another one. I actually like Tyron Johnson better than Guyton. Both have done ok but Gabriel Davis and John Brown are better....then you add Beasley...the a cherry on top and thats a good group.

And yes, we need better coaching....no shit on that. We all agree except Critty.
We probably have more wins as im sure there wouldnt be any run plays with no timeouts under 30 seconds or bad clock management. Would we be in the playoff hunt? Probably a bottom seed trying to get in like Las Vegas. Id still say 8-8 like i did before the season.

[Critty]

Chain. We did a DC vs OC and you lost. You went one dimensional and were blown out. And then you disappeared.

Look.....
If you want to threaten the entire playbook, you cannot go pass happy. As soon as you go too pass happy, you lose much of your playbook and counters of pass and run and play action.
And put so much pressure on QB and offensive line. And make opponent defense job much easier.
A sound running game is necessary to get good play action. And a sound running game is necessary to be more effective in red zone opportunities.
A well timed screen game will help slow down a pass rush and can get chunk yards. Ask Andy Reid and Pat Mahomes.

Said Safety Harrison Smith, a lot of success of pass has to do with the situation.
I'm not biting on play action if we are up 3 scores.
When people talk about all the creative thing Saints do in the pass game, it works because they run the ball.

Stats say. No team with run/pass of 34/66 or more split has ever made it past wildcard rd.
Only 3% of team with this pass favored split has even made it to playoffs.
And this is where Chainy wants Lynn to go. Something that over past decade failed 97% of the time.

Only 1 team has made the Superbowl in the last decade with a split in the range of 35/65 - 39/61

4 teams have made superbowl with run pass of 55/45 or more in favor of run. (nothing like pushing the other team around and they cannot stop it, lineman love it)

All other superbowl teams were range of 40/60 - 44/56 ( this is the sweet spot where you threaten everything and can use the entire playbook)
This is Lynn. 40/60 If Lynn wants to move that up to as high as 44/56 as Herbert grows in the offense, that works.
As long as he does NOT do what Chainy wants. If Lynn or any Chargers HC goes full Chainy, you wont ever win a playoff game. Ever. Ever. Ever.

Lynn almost as pass happy as Reid. More then LeFleur, Shanahan and Reich.
Andy Reid 39/61 Lynn 40/60 LeFleur 45/55 Shanahan 43/57 Reich 44/56

Crusher, You need better eyes. You keep telling me pass more is the key, maybe one day you will wake up a realize, there is no pass key.
:ml:
40-44/56-60 balance of run to pass will open up the largest pathway to success for Herbert career.

Telesco!!! Get Herbert some better o-line and get him some better depth at RB.
And a clutch kicker. Don't do him like Rivers after LT left. Or screw him with a Kaeding FG playoff choking.
And make it all on Justin to do everything.
It wasnt fair to Rivers and it wont be fair to Herbert.

[Bolt4Knob]

Chain. We did a DC vs OC and you lost. You went one dimensional and were blown out. And then you disappeared.

Look.....
If you want to threaten the entire playbook, you cannot go pass happy. As soon as you go too pass happy, you lose much of your playbook and counters of pass and run and play action.
And put so much pressure on QB and offensive line. And make opponent defense job much easier.
A sound running game is necessary to get good play action. And a sound running game is necessary to be more effective in red zone opportunities.
A well timed screen game will help slow down a pass rush and can get chunk yards. Ask Andy Reid and Pat Mahomes.

Said Safety Harrison Smith, a lot of success of pass has to do with the situation.
I'm not biting on play action if we are up 3 scores.
When people talk about all the creative thing Saints do in the pass game, it works because they run the ball.

Stats say. No team with run/pass of 34/66 or more split has ever made it past wildcard rd.
Only 3% of team with this pass favored split has even made it to playoffs.
And this is where Chainy wants Lynn to go. Something that over past decade failed 97% of the time.

Only 1 team has made the Superbowl in the last decade with a split in the range of 35/65 - 39/61

4 teams have made superbowl with run pass of 55/45 or more in favor of run. (nothing like pushing the other team around and they cannot stop it, lineman love it)

All other superbowl teams were range of 40/60 - 44/56 ( this is the sweet spot where you threaten everything and can use the entire playbook)
This is Lynn. 40/60 If Lynn wants to move that up to as high as 44/56 as Herbert grows in the offense, that works.
As long as he does NOT do what Chainy wants. If Lynn or any Chargers HC goes full Chainy, you wont ever win a playoff game. Ever. Ever. Ever.

Lynn almost as pass happy as Reid. More then LeFleur, Shanahan and Reich.
Andy Reid 39/61 Lynn 40/60 LeFleur 45/55 Shanahan 43/57 Reich 44/56

Crusher, You need better eyes. You keep telling me pass more is the key, maybe one day you will wake up a realize, there is no pass key.
:ml:
40-44/56-60 balance of run to pass will open up the largest pathway to success for Herbert career.

Telesco!!! Get Herbert some better o-line and get him some better depth at RB.
And a clutch kicker. Don't do him like Rivers after LT left. Or screw him with a Kaeding FG playoff choking.
And make it all on Justin to do everything.
It wasnt fair to Rivers and it wont be fair to Herbert.

Its not just about the OL and Kicker - which I agree with
its also about having guys on ST who have a friggin clue and a ST coach who has a friggin clue
enough already

But for sure, it starts with the damn OL. I donlt care if its four new starters - or Feeney is back at guard and a C, RG and LT - do whatever it takes to upgrade the damn OL

[Critty]

Exactly. I think the change in Buffalo's coaching staff completely changed Josh Allen's trajectory.

What just a minute. Until Ken Dorsey the QB coach arrived in 2019.(former 2 time NCAA QB of the year and QB coach to CAM Newton when he was MVP)
Daboll and McDermott had not done jack squat on their resumes.

Here is Daboll OC ranks without Ken Dorsey as QB coach.
2009 Cle OC 29th pts. 32nd yards.
2010 Cle OC 31st pts. 29th yards.
2011 Mia OC 20th pts. 22nd yards.
2012 KC OC 32nd pts. 24th yards.
2018 Buf OC 30th pts. 30th yards
Is that your offensive genius.
Then with Ken Dorsey helping as QB coach.
2019 Buf OC 23rd pts. 24th yards.
2020 Buf OC 6th pts. 4th yards.

Sidenote. McDermmott went 9-7 with Tyrod in his only year together.
Then 6-10 with Allen as a rookie.
Is that your genius HC.

I think they all are good coaches. but i see prisoner of the moment short sighted takes pointing at Bills as the way to do it.

Now if they want to add Ken Dorey to Lynn's offensive staff. I'm all for it after his success with Cam and Allen.

But Daboll, I just dont see it on his resume as a pattern of offensive success. It hard to credit him so much with 2 years of veteran Brett Farve who was already an all time great.

It easier for me to credit Ken Dorsey as he worked with QBs that had yet to have success. It is a QB driven league.
Prior to Ken Dorsey
Cam 2 seasons went 6-10 and 7-9 and TD percentages of 4.1 and 3.9
Ken Dorsey show up year 3 and he goes 12-4 and TD percent went to 5.1
By Year three it was up to 7.1 TD percent and Cam was MVP and went to Superbowl.
Ken Dorsey last year as Cam QB coach. 11-5 record. Dorsey left and Cam all of a sudden does not look like he knows how to play anymore.

And in Buffalo before Dorsey
Allen went 5-6 and TD percent of 3.1.
Dorsey shows up as QB coach. 10-6 with TD percent 4.1. Then 12-3 with TD percent 6.1

Dorsey is only 39. Someone should steal him away and make him OC of their team.
Im guessing the former 2 time NCAA QB of the year really knows a thing or two about playing QB and the passing game.

[Critty]

New GM too. Telesco will keep his job - he shouldn't

But I do like the staff you put together - both of those Coordinator names

I will say this - I want a new DC for Bradley (and in Poppers chat he thinks its more than likely if Lynn is back, Bradley is fired)

But no matter the coaching staff, the Special TEams needs an overhaul: new coordinator, new Kicker and a couple savvy special team veterans
After OL --I can think of no area that needs improvement more

What so strange about special teams is that it improved in some areas a lot by 2018 and then got bad again everywhere.

McCoy final year.
Punt Return avg. 6.6yd. Kickoff return 18.1
Punt Coverage avg 8.5 and TD allowed Kickoff coverage 24.0
Kicker 81.3%

Lynn 1st year
Punt Return avg. 9.3yd. TD scored. Kickoff return 19.0
Punt Coverage avg 6.6 Kickoff coverage 25.0
Kicker 66.7% Yikes. Telesco said he failed here. He took the blame.

Lynn 2nd year
Punt Return avg. 10.5yd. TD scored. Kickoff return 23.3
Punt Coverage avg 9.2 TD allowed. Kickoff coverage 25.0
Kicker 82.8% (Badger was 93.8%) Sturgis brought avg down.

So it appeared the returns and the FG kicking had been solved.
And now the coverage needed to get better. (of note, there were a lot of injury to player who play on coverage units)
That was a year we ended up playing extra safety in place of injured LBs.

Next year Telesco let some of the better special teamers leave. Like Adrian Philips.
And then next year they took Ekeler off coverage unit so he could play RB full time. He was a great special teamer.

It look more like a roster fix than a coaching fix.
But that is my usually stance.
ROSTER TALENT! HEALTH OF THAT TALENT!
Then point finger at coaching.
:deadhorse:

[SBbound]

saying their WR’s are better as a group while at the same time pointing out how Beasley has thrived under better coaching proves the point Chain and I were trying to make about the Buffalo roster. Are they more talented or just in a system and with coaching that produces better results? If you kept the rosters the same and flipped coaching staffs would the records be the same? I don’t think so

Interesting premise. What do you think the records would be with a flipped coaching staff?

[SuperCharged]

What just a minute. Until Ken Dorsey the QB coach arrived in 2019.(former 2 time NCAA QB of the year and QB coach to CAM Newton when he was MVP)
Daboll and McDermott had not done jack squat on their resumes.

Here is Daboll OC ranks without Ken Dorsey as QB coach.
2009 Cle OC 29th pts. 32nd yards.
2010 Cle OC 31st pts. 29th yards.
2011 Mia OC 20th pts. 22nd yards.
2012 KC OC 32nd pts. 24th yards.
2018 Buf OC 30th pts. 30th yards
Is that your offensive genius.
Then with Ken Dorsey helping as QB coach.
2019 Buf OC 23rd pts. 24th yards.
2020 Buf OC 6th pts. 4th yards.

Sidenote. McDermmott went 9-7 with Tyrod in his only year together.
Then 6-10 with Allen as a rookie.
Is that your genius HC.

I think they all are good coaches. but i see prisoner of the moment short sighted takes pointing at Bills as the way to do it.

Now if they want to add Ken Dorey to Lynn's offensive staff. I'm all for it after his success with Cam and Allen.

But Daboll, I just dont see it on his resume as a pattern of offensive success. It hard to credit him so much with 2 years of veteran Brett Farve who was already an all time great.

It easier for me to credit Ken Dorsey as he worked with QBs that had yet to have success. It is a QB driven league.
Prior to Ken Dorsey
Cam 2 seasons went 6-10 and 7-9 and TD percentages of 4.1 and 3.9
Ken Dorsey show up year 3 and he goes 12-4 and TD percent went to 5.1
By Year three it was up to 7.1 TD percent and Cam was MVP and went to Superbowl.
Ken Dorsey last year as Cam QB coach. 11-5 record. Dorsey left and Cam all of a sudden does not look like he knows how to play anymore.

And in Buffalo before Dorsey
Allen went 5-6 and TD percent of 3.1.
Dorsey shows up as QB coach. 10-6 with TD percent 4.1. Then 12-3 with TD percent 6.1

Dorsey is only 39. Someone should steal him away and make him OC of their team.
Im guessing the former 2 time NCAA QB of the year really knows a thing or two about playing QB and the passing game.

Sorry dude. I guess you know better than the pro's. Because before the Buffalo game that is EXACTLY what the pre-game talking heads say. I'll let them know to consult you first next time.

[SuperCharged]

What so strange about special teams is that it improved in some areas a lot by 2018 and then got bad again everywhere.

McCoy final year.
Punt Return avg. 6.6yd. Kickoff return 18.1
Punt Coverage avg 8.5 and TD allowed Kickoff coverage 24.0
Kicker 81.3%

Lynn 1st year
Punt Return avg. 9.3yd. TD scored. Kickoff return 19.0
Punt Coverage avg 6.6 Kickoff coverage 25.0
Kicker 66.7% Yikes. Telesco said he failed here. He took the blame.

Lynn 2nd year
Punt Return avg. 10.5yd. TD scored. Kickoff return 23.3
Punt Coverage avg 9.2 TD allowed. Kickoff coverage 25.0
Kicker 82.8% (Badger was 93.8%) Sturgis brought avg down.

So it appeared the returns and the FG kicking had been solved.
And now the coverage needed to get better. (of note, there were a lot of injury to player who play on coverage units)
That was a year we ended up playing extra safety in place of injured LBs.

Next year Telesco let some of the better special teamers leave. Like Adrian Philips.
And then next year they took Ekeler off coverage unit so he could play RB full time. He was a great special teamer.

It look more like a roster fix than a coaching fix.
But that is my usually stance.
ROSTER TALENT! HEALTH OF THAT TALENT!
Then point finger at coaching.
:deadhorse:

Nope.... and Nope. I find it amusing that you play down coaching so much. Hey but it's the players fault they don't know when to call a TO. smh....

[wu-dai clan]

saying their WR’s are better as a group while at the same time pointing out how Beasley has thrived under better coaching proves the point Chain and I were trying to make about the Buffalo roster. Are they more talented or just in a system and with coaching that produces better results? If you kept the rosters the same and flipped coaching staffs would the records be the same? I don’t think so

Josh Allen's development has been THE key.
He always had talent.
My argument is that Ken Dorsey gets the credit.
Not Brian Dabold.
Not all the Oline moves.
Not trickle down from Stefon Diggs.
Pep goes :chuckle: .

[Guest]

Chain. We did a DC vs OC and you lost. You went one dimensional and were blown out. And then you disappeared.

Look.....
If you want to threaten the entire playbook, you cannot go pass happy. As soon as you go too pass happy, you lose much of your playbook and counters of pass and run and play action.
And put so much pressure on QB and offensive line. And make opponent defense job much easier.
A sound running game is necessary to get good play action. And a sound running game is necessary to be more effective in red zone opportunities.
A well timed screen game will help slow down a pass rush and can get chunk yards. Ask Andy Reid and Pat Mahomes.

Said Safety Harrison Smith, a lot of success of pass has to do with the situation.
I'm not biting on play action if we are up 3 scores.
When people talk about all the creative thing Saints do in the pass game, it works because they run the ball.

Stats say. No team with run/pass of 34/66 or more split has ever made it past wildcard rd.
Only 3% of team with this pass favored split has even made it to playoffs.
And this is where Chainy wants Lynn to go. Something that over past decade failed 97% of the time.

Only 1 team has made the Superbowl in the last decade with a split in the range of 35/65 - 39/61

4 teams have made superbowl with run pass of 55/45 or more in favor of run. (nothing like pushing the other team around and they cannot stop it, lineman love it)

All other superbowl teams were range of 40/60 - 44/56 ( this is the sweet spot where you threaten everything and can use the entire playbook)
This is Lynn. 40/60 If Lynn wants to move that up to as high as 44/56 as Herbert grows in the offense, that works.
As long as he does NOT do what Chainy wants. If Lynn or any Chargers HC goes full Chainy, you wont ever win a playoff game. Ever. Ever. Ever.

Lynn almost as pass happy as Reid. More then LeFleur, Shanahan and Reich.
Andy Reid 39/61 Lynn 40/60 LeFleur 45/55 Shanahan 43/57 Reich 44/56

Crusher, You need better eyes. You keep telling me pass more is the key, maybe one day you will wake up a realize, there is no pass key.
:ml:
40-44/56-60 balance of run to pass will open up the largest pathway to success for Herbert career.

Telesco!!! Get Herbert some better o-line and get him some better depth at RB.
And a clutch kicker. Don't do him like Rivers after LT left. Or screw him with a Kaeding FG playoff choking.
And make it all on Justin to do everything.
It wasnt fair to Rivers and it wont be fair to Herbert.

I designed a play that had options that beat every aspect of your weak defensive plan. Good luck with your safety in the deep middle. He either covers the flag route and leaves the seam/middle open for the receiver on the opposite side or leaves the flag for the defender on the offense's weak side, which exposes the area underneath on the outbreaking route. We have killed that route combination against Cover-2 in back to back games. If your SS or MLB blitzes, it gets picked up. If both blitz, the short middle is wide open for the TE. If neither blitz, the TE breaks back outside to threaten the short right/middle, increasing the room for the seam pass on the right side. In that situation, the RB heads to the left flat, putting pressure on the outside LB on that side and opening up even more room for the outbreaking WR.

Of course, you are wrong about the entire playbook as well. In fact, sometimes running certain plays less frequently helps them to be more successful. If the team runs about one-third of the time, that is plenty enough for any play action desired.

Teams are different in their strengths. I do not care what other teams have done in the past. Neither did Don Coryell. It should not be too difficult to figure out that the plays that average 7.2 yards per play are better than the ones that average 3.8 yards per play, which is what we do on passes versus runs per play.

It should be too difficult to figure out that the rules increasingly favor the passing game, so all teams that have the ability to pass comparatively well should be passing more. This is similar to the reality that teams historically did not go for it enough on 4th down. It is best to be out in front of an evolution in the game, not behind it. Don Coryell knew something about that as well.

Also, I have repeatedly stated that our split (the 2020 Chargers) should be 2 to 1 in favor of the pass. If you change the team (get a better OL), you may change the mix. I never said, for example, that teams like BAL and TEN are wrong for running the ball a lot. They are well designed for that approach. We are not. The other teams that you have mentioned have better ground games than we do. The Colts used to be bad and Reich's play calling at that time was beyond stupid (when the Colts were dead last or 31st in YPC), but Taylor has developed and now the Colts are much better at running the ball, so a little more running than what they should have been doing before (not what Reich was actually doing) is justified.

The most important player on the field is the QB. That tells you which aspect of the NFL game is most important. The answer is that passing is more important than running.

[Critty]

Nope.... and Nope. I find it amusing that you play down coaching so much. Hey but it's the players fault they don't know when to call a TO. smh....

You do understand that it always starts with talent.
That will never ever change.
Coaches can be criticized for perceived mistakes and for actually poor timeout or clock management. And anything else. Its your opinion to weight coaching to the level you choose. I choose to start with Talent and Health and the GM who shops for the groceries. Its fair to blame the HC. But when there is zero objectivity in terms of roster talent and health and matchups. Then I push back at that.

Do people realize last weekend Cowboys offense woke up right after Fletcher Cox left the game. Offense went form having to deal with one of the best DL in the league to dealing with the back up.

And I don't get how people make sarcastic statement of players fault coaches don't know when to call timeout.
Or Rivers doesn't play defense. Or other non sense. Obviously everybody has a job to do and a role to play. Well that logic also means Lynn doesn't kick FG, miss tackles or drop TD passes. But, Lynn did get the exact same amount of sacks Ingram got this year. Zero.

It the ultimate team game. And I am seeing nitpicking scapegoating of Lynn. And ignoring his entire resume and giving him zero credit for adding Pep and Hebert having an OROY season.

Everything good over the 4 seasons, each win and any player development was in spite of Lynn.
And every bad thing that happened is Lynn fault.

I get it is fanatics so it gets blown out of proportion.

SMH. That they can't credit Lynn for what good while also criticism for what can be improved. I would be less inclined to drive the Lynn bandwagon if there was more objectivity.

Like it or not Lynn overall winner 32-31 as Chargers HC and did the transition to a new city and transition to a new QB.
He is one of only a handful of winning HCs the franchise has had. And he is similarly stubborn to Ross the HC who took us to the only Superbowl and Marty the HC who had best regular season record. So I like Lynn coaching style and I like that he is salty after losses.

Also when Lynn gets ripped for how he uses his timeouts at half and at end of game. Okay.....there are things to criticize. But people have to remember he also rarely wastes timeouts mid game. He intentionally tries to save all 3. He was criticed for how he used all three. Freaking Belicheat wasted them all in a game this year and had none to use late in the game. And then admitted it was poor coaching, they have to play without wasting all their timeout.

We don't have delay of games with Lynn or wasted timeouts.
There are good things he is doing in managing the game and this team.

But, All I see is laser focus on finding any way to show he is the worst coach in the league.
And absurd claims this Chargers team should be the #1 seed.

:smh:

[Boltjolt]

Critty you know what else starts with talent?

Coaching!

There are great coaches, good coaches, ok coaches and bad coaches. Lynn falls somewhere in the middle like our players overall talent.

A QB may miss an open man or a RB runs to the wrong hole, a WR can run a wrong route the and Lynn can't manage a clock and Steichen doesn't understand having no timeouts with under 30 seconds calls for a pass.