Future With Lynn?

[Guest]

silly. nothing frightening or scary happening. just talking shop.
if my responses cause you to post silly quotes, maybe you need to let the information swirl around your head, go watch film in detail, do some true roster comparisons and historical comparisons and then get back to me with your narrative of how you see things. but you are going to need links and evidence. and not just a story and a statement of trust me, it happened like this. that wont ever work with me.

That "information" needs to be swirling around somewhere else.

[Critty]

Good grief
Who owns the damn team. Who makes the decisions on GM and HC.
I get Lynn is low hanging fruit for you to pick on.
Do you ever review the history to get better context of where the franchise is right now.
Or is it simply a what have you done lately thing.

IT ALWAYS STARTS WITH TALENT.
After that it is coaching.
You keep insisting it is a very talented team.
There are very few players on the entire roster that would currently rank in top 15 at their position.
Please Tell me where the o-line unit ranks vs rest of league in terms of talent and health.
And do the same for Secondary, Tight End, Running Backs, Receivers, Punters, Kick Returners.

Then you can crap all over the coaches.
But first show me that they are indeed one of the most talented team in the league.

We know they got a great young rookie QB.
With no Ekeler, that is a bottom 25 running back room.
Tight End. Henry is solid. But there is no way that is a top 15 unit either with Green on IR.
O-line. Dont get the trenchers started. They are adequate and improving but not a top 15 unit.
D-line. When Bosa is out. They are middle of the pack. He is the Keystone of that unit. When he is in place they are a top 10 d-line.
Secondary. They are middle of the pack. James is the Keystone of that unit. When he is in place they are a top 10 secondary.
Special Teams. No way that is a top 15 unit. The punt returner, even when it was Desmond is average at best. Hill the rookie? Who you going to put back there that scares the opponent? Name him?
FG Kicker. Is Badgely having a good year. What rank is he vs the other FG kickers in the league? Maybe he was #10 last couple years, but the way he is kicking this year, he is like #25 now.

Other than Allen, Bosa and James. There is NO other player in the top 5 or 10 at their position or even top 15 yet.
Some of these 1st and 2nd year players can grow and become top 15 players. but who and when?
And Bosa has missed entire games and limited snaps in half of other games. And James is completely out.
So you have ONE damn top 5-10 player on the field. ONE. UNO. But you insist the entire team super talented enough to be undefeated.

Keep trashing Lynn like he is the problem. And ignore the context of the rosters and the entire league. And any historical context as well.
And keep making bullshit claims about his mishandling of Herbert.
Seems like NFL football minds have their own opinion.

said Daniel Jeremiah, a former N.F.L. scout and an NFL Network analyst who is a color commentator on Chargers’ radio broadcasts. “Other teams try to protect their young quarterback, try not to destroy their confidence.” The Chargers coaches said, “‘Let’s run your stuff.’”

Yep sounds like Jeremiah agrees with you Chargers coaches are mishandling Herbert. NOT!

You also forget they didnt have any pre-season. And Lynn said after draft that Herbert would get every opportunity to win the job in pre-season.
And then they didnt get any pre-season.

And when he named Justin starter, he said this below which aligns with his pre-draft statement of allowing him the opportunity to earn it in pre-season.

“I wanted this to play out, and I’ve seen enough, and I wanted to go ahead and make it official,” Lynn said.

Literally been an open book about how impressed he is, how much he loves and believes in Justin. And how he wanted to see him play and earn the job.

Telesco has 48 one score losses over his 8 years. So this one score loss thing has been here prior to Lynn.

Everyone is entitle to their take. Mine is not very popular with the members here and that is fine with me. I don't mind being proven wrong by them firing Lynn and the next hire is able to win a lot more.

You can tell me if and when that happens, how dumb i was to back Lynn and think he was a good football coach.

We can let it play out before we make it official.

[jamrock]

Ownership did work the situation out by firing Marty after the situation had become worse.

The GM and HC weren’t on speaking terms for well over a year prior to that. That’s not working the situation out. That’s letting the toxic situation fester into an inoperable tumor

[Critty]

The GM and HC weren’t on speaking terms for well over a year prior to that. That’s not working the situation out. That’s letting the toxic situation fester into an inoperable tumor

Thank you.
Spanos abdicated their responsibility and allowed things to deteriorate to the point of no return.
100% Complete failure by ownership.
Clear as day.

Dean is familiar with failure. And also used to things handed to him.
Why would he know how to resolve anything when he has never built anything from the ground up and earned it.
He inherited what he owns. And failure after failure the franchise continues to be worth more. So what is the consequence to make him change how he does things.

Somehow Besos or Balmer would figure this out. Whether keeping or replacing Lynn. The first thing they would do is say, we are building a Stadium for the Chargers.
And they wont need any help to do it. They also would not be looking for cheaper coaches or trying to scout the players them self. They would hire talented people to do that.
And yes they would likely hire a proven winner who has done it before if they switch coaches.

Just not in favor of scapegoating Lynn as it is more than likely a sideways move if he is replaced.
You go from McCoy to Lynn to just another guy willing to accept the Spanos family picking the players and some of the staff..

[jamrock]

Spanos can be a shitty owner - which we all know — and Lynn can be a poor HC. Both things can be true.

[richpjr]

Spanos can be a shitty owner - which we all know — and Lynn can be a poor HC. Both things are true.

Fixed it for you.

[Guest]

Good grief
Who owns the damn team. Who makes the decisions on GM and HC.
1. I get Lynn is low hanging fruit for you to pick on.
2. Do you ever review the history to get better context of where the franchise is right now.
Or is it simply a what have you done lately thing.

IT ALWAYS STARTS WITH TALENT.
After that it is coaching.
3. You keep insisting it is a very talented team.
There are very few players on the entire roster that would currently rank in top 15 at their position.
Please Tell me where the o-line unit ranks vs rest of league in terms of talent and health.
And do the same for Secondary, Tight End, Running Backs, Receivers, Punters, Kick Returners.

Then you can crap all over the coaches.
But first show me that they are indeed one of the most talented team in the league.

4. We know they got a great young rookie QB.
With no Ekeler, that is a bottom 25 running back room.
Tight End. Henry is solid. But there is no way that is a top 15 unit either with Green on IR.
O-line. Dont get the trenchers started. They are adequate and improving but not a top 15 unit.
D-line. When Bosa is out. They are middle of the pack. He is the Keystone of that unit. When he is in place they are a top 10 d-line.
Secondary. They are middle of the pack. James is the Keystone of that unit. When he is in place they are a top 10 secondary.
Special Teams. No way that is a top 15 unit. The punt returner, even when it was Desmond is average at best. Hill the rookie? Who you going to put back there that scares the opponent? Name him?
FG Kicker. Is Badgely having a good year. What rank is he vs the other FG kickers in the league? Maybe he was #10 last couple years, but the way he is kicking this year, he is like #25 now.

5. Other than Allen, Bosa and James. There is NO other player in the top 5 or 10 at their position or even top 15 yet.
Some of these 1st and 2nd year players can grow and become top 15 players. but who and when?
And Bosa has missed entire games and limited snaps in half of other games. And James is completely out.
So you have ONE damn top 5-10 player on the field. ONE. UNO. But you insist the entire team super talented enough to be undefeated.

Keep trashing Lynn like he is the problem. And ignore the context of the rosters and the entire league. And any historical context as well.
6. And keep making bullshit claims about his mishandling of Herbert.
Seems like NFL football minds have their own opinion.

7. said Daniel Jeremiah, a former N.F.L. scout and an NFL Network analyst who is a color commentator on Chargers’ radio broadcasts. “Other teams try to protect their young quarterback, try not to destroy their confidence.” The Chargers coaches said, “‘Let’s run your stuff.’”

Yep sounds like Jeremiah agrees with you Chargers coaches are mishandling Herbert. NOT!

You also forget they didnt have any pre-season. And Lynn said after draft that Herbert would get every opportunity to win the job in pre-season.
And then they didnt get any pre-season.

And when he named Justin starter, he said this below which aligns with his pre-draft statement of allowing him the opportunity to earn it in pre-season.

“I wanted this to play out, and I’ve seen enough, and I wanted to go ahead and make it official,” Lynn said.

Literally been an open book about how impressed he is, how much he loves and believes in Justin. And how he wanted to see him play and earn the job.

8. Telesco has 48 one score losses over his 8 years. So this one score loss thing has been here prior to Lynn.

Everyone is entitle to their take. Mine is not very popular with the members here and that is fine with me. I don't mind being proven wrong by them firing Lynn and the next hire is able to win a lot more.

You can tell me if and when that happens, how dumb i was to back Lynn and think he was a good football coach.

We can let it play out before we make it official.

Various of your points have been highlighted and numbered with red numbers so that they correspond to the same numbered portions of my response.

1. Lynn is low hanging fruit because he has done a terrible job over the past two seasons as head coach for the Chargers--bad game plans, bad in game tactics, bad player personnel choices, bad record in one score games, multiple losing seasons in a row with a talented roster, et cetera. These things are all completely obvious to most.

2. Although your question is overbroad, history gets considered when it makes sense to do so. I have considered the history of McCoy, which is virtually identical to Lynn's history. If McCoy's firing is just, then so is Lynn's. Any meaningful distinctions favor McCoy, not Lynn (especially that McCoy had a much less talented roster). Lynn certainly has done nothing to earn protection from two wildly underachieving losing seasons in a row.

3. Unit ranks carry and incorporate the drag effect of bad coaching and do not necessarily show the true talent level. That said, the skill position players in the passing game form one of the strongest units in the league. The defense has well above average talent and was believed to be a top 5 unit heading into this season, though that was with James. Still, there is a ton of talent there with three first round picks, a second and a third playing on the DL; first and second round picks playing at LB; and another second round pick playing at FS. They are not exactly street free agents.

4. If our QB is great and you recognize Allen as a top level player while noting at the same time that our running game is weak, then a strategy of emphasizing the running game, especially on early downs, would kind of be mentally deficient, wouldn't it--in game after game after game?

5. Your statement here is insane. Herbert is a top 10 QB right now with potential top QB in the whole league kind of talent, and that is at the most important position. Henry is 5th in TE receptions. Numerous other players that play positions with multiples on the field simultaneously may not be top 10, but there are a whole bunch of above average players--Williams, Ingram (even with no sacks), Hayward, and Michael Davis. Joseph is above average and Murray is getting there and has a very high upside. For what their roles are, I would say that Guyton, Johnson and Parham are all above average players. And that is in addition to the other top level players. Again, the passing attack, in particular, is loaded with talent that fits what Herbert does.

6. Herbert has been wildly mishandled by Lynn. After one practice, Herbert should have been named the starter. Lynn screwed that up becasue he wanted to play ground and pound with Taylor at QB. Then, after week 2, Lynn doubled down on his stupidity by continuing to maintain that Taylor was the starter and that "there was a reason" why Herebrt was not the starter. That reason, of course, is because Lynn is a f*cking idiot. Also, Lynn was not very complimentary toward Herbert after the week two game while at the same time going very far out of his way to praise Taylor, whose performance absolutely sucked in comparison to Herbert's. After that, Lynn has repeatedly turtled in games and put Herbert in bad positions with his early down run focus. Then, last weekend, he doubled down on his stupidity by making the running game the focus for the whole game, dismantling what had been the #2 overall offense entering last weekend. That, of course, was after failing to let Justin cook at key times against TB, NO and DEN. I can only imagine how great Herbert would be if Lynn actually put him positions to succeed instead of going run, run, third and known passing situation all over the place in key situations. This is in additiom to failing to call a timeout to let Herbert get into the game for the critical two point conversion against Las Vegas. And, to top all of that off, there is no evidence whatsoever that Lynn intended to play Herbert at all this season had it not been for Taylor's punctured lung.

7. As for Jeremiah's comment, I am not here to say that the team has never let Herbert throw the ball down the field. But it is obvious that they have overemphasized the ground game and have put Herbert in a position to fail. I just cannot imagine that any head coach ever could do a worse job of putting a rookie QB in the best position to succeed. Lynn's coaching has been awful, but Herbert has succeeded in spite of it all, which makes his performance that much more impressive.

8. McCoy's performance in one score games got him fired. Lynn is on pace to lose more one score games than McCoy did and that is with Lynn having much more talented teams than McCoy had.

[Jagged]

Haha... You guys are having a “chicken or the egg” argument. Let me help you out, the organization AS A WHOLE is abysmal. From the top down, not one winning record with this team.

The Spanos: .478 winning percentage, this one has been well documented and I doubt that anyone here would argue that they are upper echelon owners.

Tom Telesco: .440 winning percentage since he’s been here, two playoff appearances, NO DIVISION TITLES. You may want to caveat the fact that he’s brought in talent to the team, but you cannot overlook his overall performance.

A.L: .483 winning percentage (and only going lower this year) When was the last time he won a division game? You can caveat his performance with all the injuries, but the same backup players gave him a lead in most of the games this year and they don’t manage the clock.

So you guys can shake hands and just agree that the organization as a whole sucks and only fixing one aspect of it will not correct the years of ineptitude we’ve been subjected to for over 45 years ( for me anyway)

[Guest]

Haha... You guys are having a “chicken or the egg” argument. Let me help you out, the organization AS A WHOLE is abysmal. From the top down, not one winning record with this team.

The Spanos: .478 winning percentage, this one has been well documented and I doubt that anyone here would argue that they are upper echelon owners.

Tom Telesco: .440 winning percentage since he’s been here, two playoff appearances, NO DIVISION TITLES. You may want to caveat the fact that he’s brought in talent to the team, but you cannot overlook his overall performance.

A.L: .483 winning percentage (and only going lower this year) When was the last time he won a division game? You can caveat his performance with all the injuries, but the same backup players gave him a lead in most of the games this year and they don’t manage the clock.

So you guys can shake hands and just agree that the organization as a whole sucks and only fixing one aspect of it will not correct the years of ineptitude we’ve been subjected to for over 45 years ( for me anyway)

I have been a fan since 1974, so we have been fans of the team for about the same length of time.

IMO, what Spanos teams did in the mid 80s, 90s and 2000s has nothing to do with the team today. Also, Alex/Dean have never been "hands on" owners that played a large role in player selection like Al Davis did for the Raiders.

The early 2010s are somewhat relevant because that is the team Telesco took over. That team had talented players that were getting long in the tooth. Telesco decided not to keep several of those players when those players could have been kept for maybe another year or two with diminishing returns.

Everyone should recall that that created a talent void on the roster. Telesco filled several areas of the roster with castoffs from other teams, especially his former organization, the Colts. The 2013 team that McCoy coached overachieved thanks mostly to a great season from Rivers.

However, Telesco built up the team over the years and the team has well above average overall talent at this point.

But the focus of this thread is Lynn. Has Lynn mximized the talent of his players? Has Lynn put the team in the best position to win? For a multitude of reasons that many posters have detailed in this thread, the answer in an overwhelming "NO!"

And that is why Lynn needs to be fired. This is not a bottom 5 team in terms of talent on the field and yet that is the result that Lynn has produced.

[Jagged]

I have been a fan since 1974, so we have been fans of the team for about the same length of time.

IMO, what Spanos teams did in the mid 80s, 90s and 2000s has nothing to do with the team today. Also, Alex/Dean have never been "hands on" owners that played a large role in player selection like Al Davis did for the Raiders.

The early 2010s are somewhat relevant because that is the team Telesco took over. That team had talented players that were getting long in the tooth. Telesco decided not to keep several of those players when those players could have been kept for maybe another year or two with diminishing returns.

Everyone should recall that that created a talent void on the roster. Telesco filled several areas of the roster with castoffs from other teams, especially his former organization, the Colts. The 2013 team that McCoy coached overachieved thanks mostly to a great season from Rivers.

However, Telesco built up the team over the years and the team has well above average overall talent at this point.

But the focus of this thread is Lynn. Has Lynn mximized the talent of his players? Has Lynn put the team in the best position to win? For a multitude of reasons that many posters have detailed in this thread, the answer in an overwhelming "NO!"

And that is why Lynn needs to be fired. This is not a bottom 5 team in terms of talent on the field and yet that is the result that Lynn has produced.

What the Spanos family did over the years is most certainly relevant. Everything they’ve done is cumulative to this point. Over 30 years of never learning from their mistakes.

You can say we’re not a bottom five team, but our record says otherwise. That’s another problem with this organization, the “well we played well enough to win” or the “they didn’t win the game, we lost it”.... moral victories don’t count in the win column. Telesco has made plenty of mistakes and should be held to the same standard. The team does halve talent in personnel, but what group on this team is top five? Maybe receivers.....that’s about it.

The focus of this thread is about Lynn and I have no faith that he can do anything but what he’s been doing, but he’s definitely not alone when the fingers are pointed.

[Guest]

What the Spanos family did over the years is most certainly relevant. Everything they’ve done is cumulative to this point. Over 30 years of never learning from their mistakes.

You can say we’re not a bottom five team, but our record says otherwise. That’s another problem with this organization, the “well we played well enough to win” or the “they didn’t win the game, we lost it”.... moral victories don’t count in the win column. Telesco has made plenty of mistakes and should be held to the same standard. The team does halve talent in personnel, but what group on this team is top five? Maybe receivers.....that’s about it.

The focus of this thread is about Lynn and I have no faith that he can do anything but what he’s been doing, but he’s definitely not alone when the fingers are pointed.

No, what the Spanos family did over 30 years ago has absolutely no bearing on assessing the performance of Anthony Lynn, which is the subject of this thread. That is a bunch of completely illogical nonsense.

The whole point of the discussion about Lynn is that his team has underperformed because of him. If the team's talent were what the team's record indicates, then no coach could ever overperform or underperform, which, again, is a bunch of illogical nonsense.

No unit actually needs to be a top 5 unit for the team to have underperformed. All of the units taken as a whole need to be better than a bottom 5 combined group to establish that the team is not playing to the level of its talent. While people can reasonably disagree regarding whether or not our team is a top 5 team in terms of overall talent (I think they at least have the talent of a playoff level team and have not been overmatched from a talent standpoint in any game this season, including against the Chiefs), no reasonable person could believe that this is a bottom 5 team in terms of talent. So, the team has clearly underperformed versus its talent level on the field.

This thread has detailed at great length all of the reasons why the team has underperformed that are wholly unrelated to the level of talent on the field--poor game plans, horrible in game tactical decisions, obviously poorly coached players from a strategy standpoint, et cetera.

It is not as if this were some sort of close call regarding Lynn's poor pefromance. The things I am speaking of are completely obvious to most on this forum, to others in the media and in other places where fans discuss football issues.

[WindsorUK]

Fixed it for you.

Nailed it Rich!