Coach Staley Discussion - Fired

[Critty]

Near last in defense 3 years running isn't progress.

How many spots from last do you call near. 2, 3, 4 ....11.
They were 11 spots away from near last. That is actually closer to avg and middle of pack than last. That are 8 spots from last right now, but that's after Lions game, prior to Lions game they were 12 spots away from being near last They have 8 games left to improve in overall ranking.
They are 3rd overall in 3rd down defense this year.
So there is progress. Only Cleveland and Dallas have been better on 3rd down defense this year.

Again progress, year 1 they were last in 3rd down defense. Last year they improved to 11th. This year they are now 3rd. I see plenty both on tape and in the stats that say they are trending the right direction defensively. Be patient is what I'm going to do right now as a fan. I'm okay being one of the very few who still like this HC and what is happening overall with this team. Again the special teams and high draft picks of OL and DL are enough for me to give him more of a leash to build his program. And again. There is improvement with defense, it's just hasn't been consistent enough of dominant yet. But even a great defense allows 2 or 3 scores a game. Like 17pts SF allowed last year. Nobody is really stopping and shutting anyone in this league. Staley units are giving up about 3 to 4 scores a game on avg.. They need to eliminate 1. Force a punt. I think they will get there. So I'm driving the bandwagon.

[Critty]

I get it Critty. There’s a lot that I like about Staley. My ideal HC currently would be a Staley type but with a much better defense. But as it is, he’s not going to stay on as HC after this season unless the defense at least plays average against better teams in the league. You can’t have the worst defenses three years running.

He has never had the worst defense.
he was 29th, 21st, and currently 24th. I get below avg defense for 3 years is not good enough. Okay. But the worst. That has never happened. And again the 3rd down defense has improved every year under him. Currently 3rd best in league in defense on 3rd down. These are indications to me that the defense has and is improving. Just not good enough yet. But it trending right direction year to year from what I am seeing.

[Eurobolt]

He has never had the worst defense.
he was 29th, 21st, and currently 24th. I get below avg defense for 3 years is not good enough. Okay. But the worst. That has never happened. And again the 3rd down defense has improved every year under him. Currently 3rd best in league in defense on 3rd down. These are indications to me that the defense has and is improving. Just not good enough yet. But it trending right direction year to year from what I am seeing.

Bla bla bla stop to Critty MANIPULTION about 3 down defence Popper made an article on Atletic.

We are last in
NFL Team Opponent Fourth Down Conversions per Game

and we are next to last in
NFL Team Opponent Fourth Downs per Game


Why every coach goes uber agressive vs our defence?

Because we suck.

[Eurobolt]

The Athletic has live coverage of Bears vs. Chargers on Sunday Night Football

The box-score stats tell one story about the Los Angeles Chargers’ third-down defense this season.

Head over to any stats landing page, and you will see the Chargers near the top of the third-down defense standings: 20 conversions allowed on 60 third downs, a 33.3 percent rate that is tied for fourth-best in the NFL.

“We’re one of the top third-down teams in the NFL,” coach Brandon Staley said after Monday’s night’s 20-17 loss to the Dallas Cowboys.

That’s not the whole truth, though.

What this 33.3 percent figure does not take into account is penalties. And you guessed it: The Chargers lead the league in third-down penalties this season. They have 10 total, seven of which have led directly to conversions. The other three were personal fouls tacked onto the end of plays that already resulted in conversions — a Joey Bosa facemask against the Miami Dolphins in Week 1, a Kenneth Murray Jr. roughing the passer against the Tennessee Titans in Week 2 and a Raheem Layne unnecessary roughness against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 3.

Using TruMedia’s play-by-play data, we can calculate what we will call True Third Down Conversion Rate, which factors penalties into overall third down efficiency. The Chargers’ third-down conversion rate allowed jumps from 33.3 percent to 42.2 percent with penalties incorporated. That 42.2 percent ranks 17th in True Third Down Conversion Rate — bottom half of the league.

One reason for this substantial increase is what amounts to misleading statistical representation. In the Chargers’ case, three of the 60 third downs they have faced actually resulted in first-down penalties. However, the on-field play result was short of the sticks, and so it is marked down as a failed conversion.

GO DEEPER

'That's on me': Justin Herbert unsettled by Cowboys pass rush in 20-17 loss

For example, on a third-and-11 in the third quarter against the Vikings, quarterback Kirk Cousins scrambled for 10 yards before being tackled by safety Derwin James Jr. Cornerback Michael Davis was flagged for defensive holding, resulting in a first down. This play is included in the 60 third downs but not included in the 20 conversions. Same with the unnecessary roughness call on James in the red zone in the second quarter of that Vikings win. And same with the illegal contact penalty on Ja’Sir Taylor on a third-and-18 in Monday’s loss. With those three penalties included, the numbers are 23 conversions on 60 third downs.

Add in four third-down penalties on plays that were technically negated, and you get 27 conversions on 64 third downs — 42.2 percent. Those four plays:

• Sebastian Joseph-Day roughing the passer against the Titans on a third-and-6.

• James unnecessary roughness against the Titans on third-and-13.

• Davis illegal use of the hands against the Vikings on third-and-11.

• Morgan Fox neutral zone zone infraction against the Vikings on third-and-4.

Taylor and Davis were both called for illegal contact on the third-and-18 on Monday night against the Cowboys. It was a massive play in the game. The conversion kept the Cowboys’ drive alive, and they later converted on what ended up being the game-winning field goal from kicker Brandon Aubrey with 2:19 remaining.

The Cowboys declined Davis’ penalty and accepted Taylor’s. The tape clearly shows Taylor making contact with Dallas receiver Jalen Tolbert 10 yards downfield. By the book, it is a fair call. In another game, referees might have let this contact slide. But with the way the refs were calling the game Monday night, it ended up as a game-shifting mistake from Taylor.

“We’re not going to make any excuses about any type of call, one way or the other,” Staley said Monday. “We need to play with cleaner technique in the secondary. It continues to be an emphasis and will always be an emphasis, especially with the way things are being officiated in the league. And so we need to continue to do better.”

Allowing a conversion on a third down of this length is just unacceptable. For Staley’s defenses, these letdowns have become commonplace. This season, including penalties, the Chargers have allowed conversions on 8 of 12 third downs with at least 11 yards to gain — a 66.7 percent True Conversion Rate. No other team is above 43 percent.

ADVERTISEMENT

Dating back to last year, the Chargers have allowed a True Conversion Rate of 37.8 percent on third downs of 11 or more yards to gain. No other team is above 28 percent.

And since the start of 2021, when Staley took over as coach and defensive play caller, the Chargers are allowing a league-high 28.6 percent True Conversion Rate on third downs with 11 or more yards to gain. No other team is above 25 percent.

The Chargers have been called for nine first-down penalties on third down with at least 11 yards to gain over the last three seasons.

Yes, that is the most in the league.

“Penalties make the conversions sort of a much different story,” Staley said. “That’s where I think we’ve been focusing as coaches and where we need to continue to put the emphasis on, is just playing with the right technique and taking advantage of the leverages that we give you. And if you do that, then you will stay penalty-free.”

The other big issue with the Chargers’ third-down defense is when they are allowing these conversions.

After the third-and-18 penalty Monday night, the Chargers allowed a third-and-6 conversion to receiver CeeDee Lamb after quarterback Dak Prescott escaped the pocket. Lamb beat Taylor. The Chargers then allowed a third-and-9 conversion to Brandin Cooks on a comeback route that moved the Cowboys firmly into field goal range. Cooks beat Asante Samuel Jr.

The Chargers defense has a True Conversion Rate of 60.9 percent in the fourth quarter and overtime this season — 14 conversions on 23 third downs. No other teams is above 55 percent. One of those conversions was Tony Pollard’s 60-yard catch-and-run Monday night after breaking a tackle from Davis early in the fourth quarter on a third-and-11.

Tony Pollard’s 60-yard catch-and-run conversion was among the back-breaking plays the Chargers allowed. (Ronald Martinez / Getty Images)

“We’re capable of being an elite unit that needs to stop fouling,” Staley said. “We’re in premium coverages and leverages, and our guys got to play clean football. But I think that we’re playing with the right variety. I think we’re rushing the passer at a high level. I think we’re covering people up, taking away their targets.”

ADVERTISEMENT

The Chargers are fourth in the league in third-down pressure rate, according to TruMedia. They have created pressure on half of opposing dropbacks on third down this season.

The coverage, though, has to be better. And the Chargers must stop committing penalties on crucial third downs.

This is a three-year trend now, and Staley must find a way for his message to land.

“Our guys are executing the defenses well,” Staley said. “What I’m seeing is a unit that’s playing a high level, and we’d be feeling convincingly positive if we hadn’t had the fouls.”

(Top photo of Chargers tackling CeeDee Lamb after converting a third-and-8 play: Harry How / Getty Images)

---

“The Football 100,” the definitive ranking of the NFL’s best 100 players of all time, goes on sale this fall. Preorder it here.

[Formula 21]

I did read a Barnwell piece and the "nepotism" (whether family or just coaches he is very familiar with) on the current Patriots staff would be a problem. Thats probably why I am more iffy on Hoodie. I just don't want people like Joe Judge, Josh or his kids on staff. Plus would he want player personnel. If he just wanted to coach, that might be one thing - but not both

Does Belicheat waste 3rd rounders on mega reaches?

[Xenos]

He has never had the worst defense.
he was 29th, 21st, and currently 24th. I get below avg defense for 3 years is not good enough. Okay. But the worst. That has never happened. And again the 3rd down defense has improved every year under him. Currently 3rd best in league in defense on 3rd down. These are indications to me that the defense has and is improving. Just not good enough yet. But it trending right direction year to year from what I am seeing.

Okay, we can’t have a very below average defense three year running. And while there are indications that the defense has improved, it’s just not enough in the third year. I’m hoping something does happen quickly because I like Staley also and hate to see another HC change. But unless we make a deep playoff run, I don’t see any way he comes back.

[jubei]

you can spend gobs of picks on Oline, Dline, whatever, but if they still suck it doesnt matter. Our D is like the highest-paid D in the NFL. Also, we've played 2 of the most inept offenses in football so that'll definitely prop up the D's stats and played plenty of backup QBs. I'm not sold on this D at all and I knew it was all smoke and mirrors after the chicago and ny games. but what I WILL give him credit for is fixing STs...they are solid. I will not give him credit for not chargering anymore because they still do...on the most historic ways I might add.

[CanadianBoltFan]

He has never had the worst defense.
he was 29th, 21st, and currently 24th. I get below avg defense for 3 years is not good enough. Okay. But the worst. That has never happened. And again the 3rd down defense has improved every year under him. Currently 3rd best in league in defense on 3rd down. These are indications to me that the defense has and is improving. Just not good enough yet. But it trending right direction year to year from what I am seeing.

WOW. Get some new glasses and take off the rose colored ones

8 times this year an NFL defense has given up 475 + yards in a game. 4 of those times was Brandon Staley's defense.

Brandon Staley's defense is LAST in pass defense

Brandon Staley's defense is LAST by far, in giving up explosive plays, back breaking, game changing explosive plays. Like on Sunday when they gave up 41 points and Justin Herbert led offense became the first offense since 1991 to score TDS on their last 5 possessions and LOSE. Game tied at 38. After sucking all game, Staley's defense just had to come up with one stop to get the ball back to Herbert to score again and win the game. FIRST PLAY...a 41 yard explosive play and the Lions were already knocking on FG range. Game over.

Over the first 3 years of Justin Herbert's career the Chargers defense has given up more points than ANY DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY in a 3 year span. Two of those years are under Brandon Staley

Justin Herbert's record as a starter is something like 22-6 when the Chargers defense holds opponents to 28 points or less. We are talking 28 fucking points!! And they cannot even do that because Herbert's over all record is 29-29. A QB this good and he is 29-29??? Give him an even average defense and Herbert would be winning most games.


Brandon Staley is "achieving" all of this with the highest paid defense in the NFL

[Critty]

Okay, we can’t have a very below average defense three year running. And while there are indications that the defense has improved, it’s just not enough in the third year. I’m hoping something does happen quickly because I like Staley also and hate to see another HC change. But unless we make a deep playoff run, I don’t see any way he comes back.

Well. I hope Spanos decides to be more like Steelers and stick with their coach and the program.
I wanted the same thing for Lynn. It easy to say he isn't good. Yet he was tied for best record in AFC when he went 12-4 and he won a playoff game on road. His OC was Steichen. I said let him build off his QB rookie year. Let them grow. That didn't happen. Lynn is asst HC of 49ers. Steichen is HC of Colts. These are very good football coaches. But Spanos hit reset button for a McVay disciple. Well ....then I still say, especially because he has a career winning record in NFL, let Brandon continue to build his program. This year is still alive, they are still right there to make a run at post season.

I'm not burying him yet. I'm driving the bandwagon. I hated previous special teams. I disliked conservative coaching and roster management. I like it spicy.

[dmac_bolt]

I guess it's just me, but I remember before Staley that Special Teams was a major liability year after year.

And I remember year after year many die hard fans wondering why Chargers rarely use 1st Rd picks on OL. Staley arrived and right away back to back years it's OL in Rd 1. And also a 2nd for Mack and then 2nd on Tuli. And Staley very first big FA signing was Corey Linsley.

For so long many fans wanted better special teams, and more investment in the trenches. And right away this new HC is building up those units that have been such an issue for decades.

The travel to East coast. Staley gets spicy about it. Calls it a myth that he doesn't believe in. Chargers have played better on East coast trips under Staley.

Chargering? Again Brandon gets spicy about it and says that is not a thing. It's a media narrative that he has no time for.

The man is literally doing exactly what many have wished for with special teams and trenches, and he is all in on upending all these Chargering narratives.

He has never finished a regular season with a losing record. Not bad for a guy in his first stint as a NFL HC.

I just think many fans are taking for granted what has been done so far in improving the team and are simply looking at what isn't done yet. And then focus on that part and coming to a natural conclusion of fire him, he isn't good enough. But, Look at the bigger picture and you're firing what you begged for decades to happen. A regime who would spend 1st round picks on OL. A regime that would turn special teams into a unit that can win a ball game. A regime that would play well on East coast trips. I regime that is determined to end the Chargering myth.

Last thing I want to do is start over when I see very clear signs of progress.

They need to be just a little better and win another down or two per game and that will look like a huge difference, but it's really just a couple downs of better football.

Last year SF allowed 17pts per game and were #1 in league
Chargers allowed 23pts last year. And again this year. 6pts per game difference. That is basically forcing a punt instead of allowing a score on 1 drive per game. That is it. 1 damn drive per game better. I think they can figure it out. Both with better coaching and better personnel. Which is why there is no way I would fire Staley. He deserves another year no matter what, IMO.

Staley is not without positives and I hope some of the positives you rightfully cite can continue. But as a DC guru, far too many plays occur where far too many players don't know what they are supposed to do. Far too many games have initial defensive schemes that offenses readily exploit because they were not good plans. Often he takes too long to adjust. I do not see the progress on defense against good offenses that is needed to get to the next level, and we are now past the expected time he should have implemented it. His defense has been worse than before his arrival and this year is arguably the worst defense he has delivered of his 3 yrs here. They are not getting better against good teams imo.

NFL requires all of the above and Staley has lost my confidence he can do this key part of the job. If he goes on a big run and wins 6 of the last 8, maybe I can consider revisiting my current view.

[Velo]

I just do not think the Chargers can waste another year of Herberts career on an unknown product. Moore or Johnson could be good - but more than likely, with the current front office, they will not succeed

I don't think Moore or Johnson is "unknown" compared to Belichick or Harbaugh. Belichick has been a coaching disaster since Brady left. Harbaugh will have been out of the league for ten years next season. IMO, Moore and Johnson are both more known quantities in today's NFL.

[Bolt4Knob]

I don't think Moore or Johnson is "unknown" compared to Belichick or Harbaugh. Belichick has been a coaching disaster since Brady left. Harbaugh will have been out of the league for ten years next season. IMO, Moore and Johnson are both more known quantities in today's NFL.

I will keep repeating this - under the Spanos family

look at the Chargers record with coaches with head coaching experience

look at the record of first time head coaches


Jim Harbaugh hasn't forgotten how to coach. Bill BElichick the GM is probably not good but Hoodie has not forgotten how to coach football.

Moore and Johnson have shown they can call offensive plays - and thats it. I think after McCoy, Lynn and Staley - going down this road a 4th time is just stupidity