Coach Staley Discussion - Fired

[Critty]

WOW. Get some new glasses and take off the rose colored ones

8 times this year an NFL defense has given up 475 + yards in a game. 4 of those times was Brandon Staley's defense.

Brandon Staley's defense is LAST in pass defense

Brandon Staley's defense is LAST by far, in giving up explosive plays, back breaking, game changing explosive plays. Like on Sunday when they gave up 41 points and Justin Herbert led offense became the first offense since 1991 to score TDS on their last 5 possessions and LOSE. Game tied at 38. After sucking all game, Staley's defense just had to come up with one stop to get the ball back to Herbert to score again and win the game. FIRST PLAY...a 41 yard explosive play and the Lions were already knocking on FG range. Game over.

Over the first 3 years of Justin Herbert's career the Chargers defense has given up more points than ANY DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY in a 3 year span. Two of those years are under Brandon Staley

Justin Herbert's record as a starter is something like 22-6 when the Chargers defense holds opponents to 28 points or less. We are talking 28 fucking points!! And they cannot even do that because Herbert's over all record is 29-29. A QB this good and he is 29-29??? Give him an even average defense and Herbert would be winning most games.


Brandon Staley is "achieving" all of this with the highest paid defense in the NFL

It's about Points, not Yards. Justin was 3 games under .500 as a rookie. Chargers as an organization have Herbert on his 3rd OC in 4 seasons. So.....maybe his record would be a bit different if they stop switching systems. I don't know. But I'm very confident the game slows down after you been in system for a long time.

You are right. They are 32 in pass defense yards in 2023.
They were 7th in pass defense yards last year in 2022 under same HC. And they were 10th pass defense yards in 2021. So........ prisoner of 2023, if you discredit him for his rank this year than you have to credit him for two top 10 pass defense yards on his resume. Correct?

This given up more points in NFL history has an asterisk, they are playing an extra game. So there are many things that have happened that are historical in this 17 game NFL. As far as points allowed over 3 years. What is it over same amount of games. Seems like it's a way to twist a stat. Games to games is more apples to apples. NFL teams on avg score 23pts a game. It's been like that for over a decade. Nobody is realing stopping anybody like they used to. When it was more a run heavy conservative without all these new rules that favor offense. scoring was 18pts game avg. So these most points over 3 years. His team over last season and a half of games is allowed about 23pts a game which is the NFL avg. Not good enough. But not nearly as bad as you believe it to be.

They need to stop 1 drive per game more and then it's a top 10 defense. That need to find that. Not as easy as fans think in the NFL. I am confident they will find it.... because they know that is what needs to happen. They all know it. Making it happen on GameDay is not so easy. Ask Belicheck how life is in NFL without being able to ride Brady's coattails.

[AK47]

Our D is like the highest-paid D in the NFL.

Wait what?

[richpjr]

WOW. Get some new glasses and take off the rose colored ones

8 times this year an NFL defense has given up 475 + yards in a game. 4 of those times was Brandon Staley's defense.

Brandon Staley's defense is LAST in pass defense

Brandon Staley's defense is LAST by far, in giving up explosive plays, back breaking, game changing explosive plays. Like on Sunday when they gave up 41 points and Justin Herbert led offense became the first offense since 1991 to score TDS on their last 5 possessions and LOSE. Game tied at 38. After sucking all game, Staley's defense just had to come up with one stop to get the ball back to Herbert to score again and win the game. FIRST PLAY...a 41 yard explosive play and the Lions were already knocking on FG range. Game over.

Over the first 3 years of Justin Herbert's career the Chargers defense has given up more points than ANY DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY in a 3 year span. Two of those years are under Brandon Staley

Justin Herbert's record as a starter is something like 22-6 when the Chargers defense holds opponents to 28 points or less. We are talking 28 fucking points!! And they cannot even do that because Herbert's over all record is 29-29. A QB this good and he is 29-29??? Give him an even average defense and Herbert would be winning most games.


Brandon Staley is "achieving" all of this with the highest paid defense in the NFL

While I don't disagree with most of your take, we are actually not the worst in giving up explosive plays this year:

[Velo]

I will keep repeating this - under the Spanos family

look at the Chargers record with coaches with head coaching experience

look at the record of first time head coaches


Jim Harbaugh hasn't forgotten how to coach. Bill BElichick the GM is probably not good but Hoodie has not forgotten how to coach football.

Moore and Johnson have shown they can call offensive plays - and thats it. I think after McCoy, Lynn and Staley - going down this road a 4th time is just stupidity

One could argue that neither Lynn nor Staley had neither the experience nor the track record of accomplishments to be head coaches. So that is a wash. Some of the most successful coaches in the league today have come from the rank and file of coordinators around the NFL and are in their first jobs. Look at DeMeco Ryans in Houston. Nick Sirianni in Philadelphia, spent years on the Chargers' staff. Shane Steichen, also a long time Chargers assistant and Herbert's first OC, has the Colts at .500 with a rookie QB and Gardner Minshew (and GBrad at DC). Dan Campbell in Detroit was a long time assistant in the NFL. Mike McDaniel in Miami, the same. Same with Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota.

Give me a young and successful coordinator who has proven he can coach and has been in the league for a number of years and is up to date and fully familiar with today's pro game. A HC like Johnson would be the best thing this team could do for Herbert.

Belichick is a has-been - no thanks.
Harbaugh is a known arsehole, hasn't coached in the NFL for a decade, and is infused with the stench of scandal at Michigan - no effing thank you.

[CanadianBoltFan]

It's about Points, not Yards. Justin was 3 games under .500 as a rookie. Chargers as an organization have Herbert on his 3rd OC in 4 seasons. So.....maybe his record would be a bit different if they stop switching systems. I don't know. But I'm very confident the game slows down after you been in system for a long time.

You are right. They are 32 in pass defense yards in 2023.
They were 7th in pass defense yards last year in 2022 under same HC. And they were 10th pass defense yards in 2021. So........ prisoner of 2023, if you discredit him for his rank this year than you have to credit him for two top 10 pass defense yards on his resume. Correct?

This given up more points in NFL history has an asterisk, they are playing an extra game. So there are many things that have happened that are historical in this 17 game NFL. As far as points allowed over 3 years. What is it over same amount of games. Seems like it's a way to twist a stat. Games to games is more apples to apples. NFL teams on avg score 23pts a game. It's been like that for over a decade. Nobody is realing stopping anybody like they used to. When it was more a run heavy conservative without all these new rules that favor offense. scoring was 18pts game avg. So these most points over 3 years. His team over last season and a half of games is allowed about 23pts a game which is the NFL avg. Not good enough. But not nearly as bad as you believe it to be.

They need to stop 1 drive per game more and then it's a top 10 defense. That need to find that. Not as easy as fans think in the NFL. I am confident they will find it.... because they know that is what needs to happen. They all know it. Making it happen on GameDay is not so easy. Ask Belicheck how life is in NFL without being able to ride Brady's coattails.

You didn't address the back breaker. The explosive plays. The reason Brandon Staley rarely ever wins big games against serious, good NFL teams. ( you could probably throw in his stupid decisions to go with the explosive plays)

How well does this defensive coach scheme against the other teams top weapons? Not very well....Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Travis Kelce repeatedly, Cee Dee Lamb, Jamyr Gibbs, AR St Brown and others are left open and slice though this defense like its swiss cheese and full of holes. Staley shows no talent or knowhow how to game plan and take out or minimize the top weapons on other teams. Even against the Chiefs who he has seen multiple times, where Kelce is the only receiving weapon of any consequence to worry about, Kelce still gallops around at will for 179 yards last game. And you say Staley is improving?

I don't give a lick if Staley's defense looked good against Tyler Bagent and Zach Wilson. Predictably, the minute they played a legit NFL QB in a good offense they gave up 41 points and were gashed for big gains and explosive plays all over the place, by run and pass.

And the worst part is how easy it looks for good teams against this soft defense. Its actually embarrassing. In a big game, against a legit team, you can never count on Staley's defense to make a big stop and get off the field when it matters. Not even on 3rd and long!!!

And my last question. How does Brandon Staley inherit an ALL PRO safety and turn him into a very average, over paid safety who cannot cover anyone and makes more penalties than impact plays???

[CanadianBoltFan]

While I don't disagree with most of your take, we are actually not the worst in giving up explosive plays this year:

Sure doesn't feel like that.

I would hedge a guess that in critical situations, in big games against good teams that we have to beat to make playoffs, when it is a critical time in the game and you need your defense to step up and make a stop, no defense is worse than this one for answering with soft line play or soft coverage and being gashed for huge chunk plays.

Or maybe I am blind or have been having a dream for the past 2 years

[Xenos]

Well. I hope Spanos decides to be more like Steelers and stick with their coach and the program.
I wanted the same thing for Lynn. It easy to say he isn't good. Yet he was tied for best record in AFC when he went 12-4 and he won a playoff game on road. His OC was Steichen. I said let him build off his QB rookie year. Let them grow. That didn't happen. Lynn is asst HC of 49ers. Steichen is HC of Colts. These are very good football coaches. But Spanos hit reset button for a McVay disciple. Well ....then I still say, especially because he has a career winning record in NFL, let Brandon continue to build his program. This year is still alive, they are still right there to make a run at post season.

I'm not burying him yet. I'm driving the bandwagon. I hated previous special teams. I disliked conservative coaching and roster management. I like it spicy.

I think the funny thing is Staley may have gotten more leeway with the defense if he was more of an offensive guy. It still wouldn’t be great because he still picked the DC who called the plays. But I don’t know if we would have be hearing about his firing with his record right now if he was more of an offensive guru instead of defensive.

[Critty]

You didn't address the back breaker. The explosive plays. The reason Brandon Staley rarely ever wins big games against serious, good NFL teams. ( you could probably throw in his stupid decisions to go with the explosive plays)

How well does this defensive coach scheme against the other teams top weapons? Not very well....Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Travis Kelce repeatedly, Cee Dee Lamb, Jamyr Gibbs, AR St Brown and others are left open and slice though this defense like its swiss cheese and full of holes. Staley shows no talent or knowhow how to game plan and take out or minimize the top weapons on other teams. Even against the Chiefs who he has seen multiple times, where Kelce is the only receiving weapon of any consequence to worry about, Kelce still gallops around at will for 179 yards last game. And you say Staley is improving?

I don't give a lick if Staley's defense looked good against Tyler Bagent and Zach Wilson. Predictably, the minute they played a legit NFL QB in a good offense they gave up 41 points and were gashed for big gains and explosive plays all over the place, by run and pass.

And the worst part is how easy it looks for good teams against this soft defense. Its actually embarrassing. In a big game, against a legit team, you can never count on Staley's defense to make a big stop and get off the field when it matters. Not even on 3rd and long!!!

And my last question. How does Brandon Staley inherit an ALL PRO safety and turn him into a very average, over paid safety who cannot cover anyone and makes more penalties than impact plays???

The names you names have been doing that to the NFL, not just Chargers. I thought the tackle on that 75yd run was bad. I think he is what his record says he is right now. Fans always want the HC to be fired when the think the teams is underperforming. I am not quick to want to fire guys. If there are enough things l like then I want them to work through it and keep building. I wanted that for Lynn because he did enough in my view to continue. And so far Brandon has done enough to get rest of this year and then depending on how that goes, all of next year. But I'm not even close to want to hit reset button. That just me. I'm out on this limb again. I don't want a coaching carousel. It has to be a big time name. Like Harbaugh. Or I'm not down for it.

[CanadianBoltFan]

The names you names have been doing that to the NFL, not just Chargers. I thought the tackle on that 75yd run was bad. I think he is what his record says he is right now. Fans always want the HC to be fired when the think the teams is underperforming. I am not quick to want to fire guys. If there are enough things l like then I want them to work through it and keep building. I wanted that for Lynn because he did enough in my view to continue. And so far Brandon has done enough to get rest of this year and then depending on how that goes, all of next year. But I'm not even close to want to hit reset button. That just me. I'm out on this limb again. I don't want a coaching carousel. It has to be a big time name. Like Harbaugh. Or I'm not down for it.

I respect your point. Change for the sake of change is not the answer. I do also understand that a coaching regime can take time to hit stride. I used to feel the same way. Sure he was 9-8 year 1, 10-7 year 2. I thought maybe he was learning and improving as a coach.

But after the playoff debacle and then this year I have seen enough. You cant be a so called defensive coach and lead a very bad defense 3 seasons in a row. You cant only beat bad teams and always lose to good teams when the pressure to perform is on. That is what defines you as a team and as a coach. A 2-10 record against teams with winning records since the start of 2022 is nowhere near remotely good enough. How much do you want to bet they will beat GB and get handled by Baltimore?

Keep in mind this coach has been given one of the most gifted and smartest young franchise QBs to come into the NFL in recent years. That has to be taken into account. Hovering around 500, trying to scrape out a wildcard berth with Justin Herbert is not an acceptable benchmark. Give this QB even a middle of the pack defense and you are challenging the Chiefs for the division every year. Management has spent more money on this defense than any defense in the NFL. You are in year 3 of your defense with the same team. What is the problem??

It is year 3. no more excuses. The guy doesn't have it. I didn't even mention in game adjustments where we have seen the good coaches outcoach him many times

[Critty]

I respect your point. Change for the sake of change is not the answer. I do also understand that a coaching regime can take time to hit stride. I used to feel the same way. Sure he was 9-8 year 1, 10-7 year 2. I thought maybe he was learning and improving as a coach.

But after the playoff debacle and then this year I have seen enough. You cant be a so called defensive coach and lead a very bad defense 3 seasons in a row. You cant only beat bad teams and always lose to good teams when the pressure to perform is on. That is what defines you as a team and as a coach. A 2-10 record against teams with winning records since the start of 2022 is nowhere near remotely good enough. How much do you want to bet they will beat GB and get handled by Baltimore?

Keep in mind this coach has been given one of the most gifted and smartest young franchise QBs to come into the NFL in recent years. That has to be taken into account. Hovering around 500, trying to scrape out a wildcard berth with Justin Herbert is not an acceptable benchmark. Give this QB even a middle of the pack defense and you are challenging the Chiefs for the division every year. Management has spent more money on this defense than any defense in the NFL. You are in year 3 of your defense with the same team. What is the problem??

It is year 3. no more excuses. The guy doesn't have it. I didn't even mention in game adjustments where we have seen the good coaches outcoach him many times

That a good bet with they way they are playing good enough to beat bad teams not good enough to beat good teams.

But since they have been close with Dolphins and Lions and it was down to last play. They just need to make 1 more play than Ravens and get that game. But Green Bay is next and that is the only game that matters right now.

[Bolt4Knob]

One could argue that neither Lynn nor Staley had neither the experience nor the track record of accomplishments to be head coaches. So that is a wash. Some of the most successful coaches in the league today have come from the rank and file of coordinators around the NFL and are in their first jobs. Look at DeMeco Ryans in Houston. Nick Sirianni in Philadelphia, spent years on the Chargers' staff. Shane Steichen, also a long time Chargers assistant and Herbert's first OC, has the Colts at .500 with a rookie QB and Gardner Minshew (and GBrad at DC). Dan Campbell in Detroit was a long time assistant in the NFL. Mike McDaniel in Miami, the same. Same with Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota.

Give me a young and successful coordinator who has proven he can coach and has been in the league for a number of years and is up to date and fully familiar with today's pro game. A HC like Johnson would be the best thing this team could do for Herbert.

Belichick is a has-been - no thanks.
Harbaugh is a known arsehole, hasn't coached in the NFL for a decade, and is infused with the stench of scandal at Michigan - no effing thank you.

Not disagreeing with you about other teams. I am purely talking about the Chargers under Spanos. The data is the data. As for Ben Johnson, he has been an OC for a year and a half, thats not that much time. Hell, he has only been in the NFL for now 11 years. Lynn was an assistant for 17 years before he got the Chargers job. Kellen Moore has been coaching for, well this is his 6th year. Period.

I also think its important for a coach to have been kicked in the gonads and not just have success. Have some failure as well. Its why I wanted Daboll over the other group

I don't care if Harbaught is a known arsehole - he has won everywhere he has went
Quinn went to the Super Bowl - but somehow he is a retread
Flores - look at what he is doing in Minnesota - built that defense back up in half a season

And seriously after McCoy Lynn and Staley - I am done with the hoping. Give me somebody who has actually been successful. And if the coach had a bad record the last two years with a team - well that is why they got fired.

[CanadianBoltFan]

That a good bet with they way they are playing good enough to beat bad teams not good enough to beat good teams.

But since they have been close with Dolphins and Lions and it was down to last play. They just need to make 1 more play than Ravens and get that game. But Green Bay is next and that is the only game that matters right now.

Just 1 more play!

My fellow Charger fan I just had a big smile and am going to end our discussion by giving you an Attaboy! You are a true diehard!! Years of Chargering, woulda coulda shoulda and we almost won.... hasn't beaten you down or sent your frustration through the roof like many of us.

Never change! 😊