AFC West Updates

[DerwinBosa]

He lead the team to 13-3, in 2009. Second best record in franchise history after the 14-2 team in 2006.

I don't think he led that team as much as he was along for the ride. That was the last year we were loaded with talent that Marty and his staff developed. After that, Tomlinson and Cromartie were gone, Merriman was finished, and the draft picks A.J. used as their replacements (Larry English, Antoine Cason, Ryan Mathews, etc.) didn't pan out as hoped, probably in part because they weren't coached up to their full potential. There's a reason Norv failed as a head coach in Washington and Oakland before getting to us.

[DerwinBosa]

He didn't take it down the drain, AJ Smith did. The talent drop off from the team that peaked in 2006 was quite precipitous during Norv's coaching tenure. It started Norv's first season, when AJ decided to let Donnie Edwards, a pillar of that defense, walk and go with Matt Wilhelm (Whiffhelm) instead. Still in 2007 Norv's Chargers won two playoff games and got the team to the AFC Championship game where Rivers played on one knee and LT had to sit out most of the game. I'm not a Norv fan, but I am a fan of accurate history. And the fact is that AJ let the talent go downhill badly from 2006 to 2012, Norv's final season, making picks like Craig "Bust"er Davis and Larry English in the 1st round and reaches like Jonas Mouton in the 2nd round. You should go back and look at some of AJ's later year drafts, they were disastrous. Yes, the Chargers went down the drain during the Norv years, and, again, I'm not a Norv fan by any means, but please let's not blame him for AJ's incompetence.

I think Norv had a lot to do with those draft picks. I remember Kevin Acee saying many in the draft room in 2007 wanted David Harris, the inside linebacker from Michigan who went to the Jets, but Norv pushed hard for Buster Davis. Harris was nothing special, but he had a few good years with the Jets, and certainly wasn't the bust Davis turned out to be.

[Velo]

And yet your preach that these are Brandon Staley's drafts.

Norv was a 3 time failure in my opinion.
He inherited not one, but three franchises with tremendous recent histories before his arrival.
He was a failure in Washington well before Snyder arrived.

Three winning franchises and he leaves as a lifetime losing head coach.

Norv couldn't spot talent if it was sitting on his face (as with Cal's Aaron Rodgers a few miles up the road from the Oakland coliseum).
GMs routinely got mixed, unclear messages on the type of players he wanted.

You don't think Norv was consulted on the Buster Davis pick? How many first rate rookie receivers did the Chargers bring in under Norv?

It is not by coincidence that AJ stopped bringing in talent once Marty left and NOrv arrived.

But it wasn't Norv's fault......never, never, never!!! Norv "the buck never stops here" Turner

Norv was the head coach. AJ was the GM. Norv's job was to coach the "talent" that AJ drafted. AJ chose Norv because he knew Norv was going to stay in his place and not interfere with AJ's personnel decisions. Staley is not that type of coach, yes, I think Staley greatly influenced this draft, and will future drafts. That makes him better than Norv. But I still don't blame Norv for the decline in talent, when it was AJ who made just about every personnel decision. Norv got the team to the playoffs in three consecutive seasons and won in the post-season. He got the team to the AFC Championship in his first year, while Marty, who is beloved on this forum, went one and done both seasons he got the team into the playoffs. Again, I'm not a fan of Norv, but I am a fan of accurate history. And it was AJ, not Norv, who is responsible for the decline in talent on this team. And, personally, I think Norv was a better HC than McCoy or Lynn. Staley is vastly superior to all three, I think, I hope.

[Xenos]

Marty took over a perennial 5 - 11 team and in 5 years turned it into 14 -2 team in one of the toughest divisions in football, headed upwards;
Norv took over a 14 - 2 team and in 5 years turned it into a 500 team in one of the weakest divisions in football, headed downwards.

A missed 40 yard field, that most kickers make, & a mind numbing interception/fumble are the only reasons this is a discussion.
If your field goal kicker misses a short game winner, typically the choking label goes to the kicker, not the head coach;
if your safety makes an ill advised interception way down field on 4rth down, and then fumbles it, typically the goat label hangs around the safeties neck,
not the head coaches.

Meanwhile, Norv got a lot of breaks in his 3 playoff wins: a bizarre punt downed at the one, a goal line fumble and a few missed field goals which prevented Tennessee from taking a commanding lead, and not having to play Freeney & a gimpy Robert Mathis in Indy.

And if Kaeding had made all his kicks against the Jets, we would have been in the AFC Championship game again under Norv.

Marty also choked a 6-1 record in 2002 when he first took over, and led us to the #1 pick after 2003.

[Boltjolt]

He didn't take it down the drain, AJ Smith did. The talent drop off from the team that peaked in 2006 was quite precipitous during Norv's coaching tenure. It started Norv's first season, when AJ decided to let Donnie Edwards, a pillar of that defense, walk and go with Matt Wilhelm (Whiffhelm) instead. Still in 2007 Norv's Chargers won two playoff games and got the team to the AFC Championship game where Rivers played on one knee and LT had to sit out most of the game. I'm not a Norv fan, but I am a fan of accurate history. And the fact is that AJ let the talent go downhill badly from 2006 to 2012, Norv's final season, making picks like Craig "Bust"er Davis and Larry English in the 1st round and reaches like Jonas Mouton in the 2nd round. You should go back and look at some of AJ's later year drafts, they were disastrous. Yes, the Chargers went down the drain during the Norv years, and, again, I'm not a Norv fan by any means, but please let's not blame him for AJ's incompetence.

What's not accurate? A great team can still be good for 2 maybe 3 years when the roster is loaded.

After going 14-2 Norv took that team to 11-5 and yes with that inherited team he won 2 playoff games then we lost the AFCCC. Perhaps with a healthy LT and Rivers we do win but that's still the team he inherited to get that far.

Next season 8-8. Next season after that, 13-3 on a weaker schedule....and 1 and done in the playoffs. From there, down the drain.

AJ did the drafting but clearly every HC has a big say in the type of players they like.

We saw that with Marty, Norv, Lynn and now Staley. AJ didn't solely do those drafts. He always said everyone was involved.

Marty's teams always do well when he is the HC and seems to me we had better drafts with him involved then with Norv.

[Xenos]

I don't think he led that team as much as he was along for the ride. That was the last year we were loaded with talent that Marty and his staff developed. After that, Tomlinson and Cromartie were gone, Merriman was finished, and the draft picks A.J. used as their replacements (Larry English, Antoine Cason, Ryan Mathews, etc.) didn't pan out as hoped, probably in part because they weren't coached up to their full potential. There's a reason Norv failed as a head coach in Washington and Oakland before getting to us.

We were nowhere near as talented in 2009 as we were in 2006. We also faced tougher opponents that year without a reliable run game like we did in 2006.

[Xenos]

What's not accurate? A great team can still be good for a 2 or 3 years.

After going 14-2 Norv took that team to 11-5 and yes with that inherited team he won 2 playoff games then we lost the AFCCC. Perhaps with a healthy LT and Rivers we do win but that's still the team he inherited to get that far.

Next season 8-8. Next season after that, 13-3 on a weaker schedule....and 1 and done in the playoffs. From there, down the drain.

AJ did the drafting but clearly every HC has a big say in the type of players they like.

We saw that with Norv, Lynn and now Staley.

2009 was a stronger schedule than 2006.

[Boltjolt]

My salute to Norvell Turner montage (just as i remember him)

Forgot the Norv away meme

[Boltjolt]

Norv was the head coach. AJ was the GM. Norv's job was to coach the "talent" that AJ drafted. AJ chose Norv because he knew Norv was going to stay in his place and not interfere with AJ's personnel decisions. Staley is not that type of coach, yes, I think Staley greatly influenced this draft, and will future drafts. That makes him better than Norv. But I still don't blame Norv for the decline in talent, when it was AJ who made just about every personnel decision. Norv got the team to the playoffs in three consecutive seasons and won in the post-season. He got the team to the AFC Championship in his first year, while Marty, who is beloved on this forum, went one and done both seasons he got the team into the playoffs. Again, I'm not a fan of Norv, but I am a fan of accurate history. And it was AJ, not Norv, who is responsible for the decline in talent on this team. And, personally, I think Norv was a better HC than McCoy or Lynn. Staley is vastly superior to all three, I think, I hope.

Pretty naive if you dont think Norv had some say with players. Pretty drastic change from draft talent from Marty's era to Norvs.

Norv maybe is a better HC than those 2 but Norv was a cream puff. Lynn I'm sure got more respect from the players, he just wasn't a good HC.

[Boltjolt]

And if Kaeding had made all his kicks against the Jets, we would have been in the AFC Championship game again under Norv.

Marty also choked a 6-1 record in 2002 when he first took over, and led us to the #1 pick after 2003.

Clearly that start was a farce. nobody expected that

[Maniaque 6]

For the head coach position, that's what I think :
1- Marty
2- AL
3- NT

Lynn and Turner are not true HC
One is a DC and the other is an OC

[Velo]

I don't think he led that team as much as he was along for the ride. That was the last year we were loaded with talent that Marty and his staff developed. After that, Tomlinson and Cromartie were gone, Merriman was finished, and the draft picks A.J. used as their replacements (Larry English, Antoine Cason, Ryan Mathews, etc.) didn't pan out as hoped, probably in part because they weren't coached up to their full potential. There's a reason Norv failed as a head coach in Washington and Oakland before getting to us.

That was the year Jamal Williams went down with an injury and didn't return. It was also the year that LT's decline began - he failed to gain 1,000 yds rushing for the first time in his career. I think it was Norv's finest season as a head coach, to get that team to 13 wins, to set a record for consecutive wins that still stands. Too bad VJ got himself arrested, Cromartie was afraid to tackle and Weddle got trucked by Shonn Greene in the playoff game v the Jets.