Patriots at Chargers Pregame Discussion (wk 8)

[Boltjolt]

Cam Newton could not throw the ball and Mac Jones can. Newton is a mistake prone QB. Jones has completed over 70% of his passes (and only has a 7.2 YPA). If we let them dink, dunk, and run, I think they will do exactly that all day long. Also, Agholor is the only WR they have with even sub-4.5 speed, so I question the ability of the Patriots to stretch the field. Bourne and Meyers run in the 4.6s for Pete's sake (molasses for a WR).

The question I have is whether or not Staley will significantly alter his deep cover shell to account for NE's preference to throw short and run and lack of speed of most of the receivers.

You put too much stock in stats imo.

Speed is great but it isnt everything. So many dudes that are fast but arent good route runners and dont have good instincts or agility or just arent smart players and got by on speed and talent alone in College. That dont work well in the NFL. Everyone in the NFL has talent but then there is NFL talent which is elite. Those guys are excelling. Jerry Rice was not a 4.4 WR. He wwas one of those Molasses types you mention. But he played fast and was quick. Chad Johnson was a 4.65 guy.

Mac Jones does not have a good arm which is another thing you think QBs need to have, nor did Brees.
He is playing well as a rookie and will get better so that 7.2 YPA means little right now but he is a rookie and they are doing what they feel is best for him right now. You complained about Burrows 6.8 YPA last year and this year it is way up. Its a part of improving and growing.

You do know a West Coast offense isnt a stretch the field offense right? Not saying that is what the Patriots run but there are WCO in the league and have been for years. You keep mentioning stretching the field and every team does that but WCO dont do it as much. WE dont do it as much as last years offense did but you wont accept that lol. We are running a lot of bunch formations than we did last season. I assume if we are behind a lot you will see more spread out formations but against Baltimore, nothing seemed to be working. It happens sometimes.

[Critty]

There is truth in that but id bet if we still had Lynn as our HC we wouldnt be 4-2. He has NO sack to go for it on 4th down and zero killer instinct. Coaching does matter but yes you need to have talent.

Another reason I'm not on the Belichick is the best HC train is because of the asterisks on his record. Was caught cheating and fined and lost draft picks. And then cheated again, and then again. And even recently in past couple seasons, they were illegally video tapping again at a Bengals game. And that's only the ones where he is caught.
I could be the winningest poker player in the world if I new your cards because I was cheating. We all know the opponents at times would say, it's like they are in our huddle calling out our plays. Or Peyton Manning saying he would not discuss anything in the locker room in NE because he thought it was bugged. And it probably was. My opinion is that Belichick is more cheater than genius. Arians gets Brady and immediately wins the Superbowl. Great coaching?! No, not exactly the reason. It's because of Brady in a QB driven league.

[Critty]

There is truth in that but id bet if we still had Lynn as our HC we wouldnt be 4-2. He has NO sack to go for it on 4th down and zero killer instinct. Coaching does matter but yes you need to have talent.

I agree, I think coaching can swing a win or two. Bad coaching and what should have been 10-7 is 8-9. Or vice versa. What should have been 8-9 is 10-7 with better game planning and in game adjustment and decisions. But overall it would be more about roster talent, health and most importantly QB play.

Belichick biggest difference for his team last year and this year compared to previous years has been QB play. A big drop off there and the record also has dropped. Not surprising at all.

[powderblueboy]

I put much more stock into the talent on field.
Coaching certainly is a factor in success but not close to the impact of QB play.
You see it with the Cardinals and Rams who are getting great QB play and then don't see it with 49ers and Seahawks who are having issues at QB right now.
I don't think Kingsbury is better than Shanahan or Carroll just because his team is playing better this year. I think the biggest factor is QB play. And Belichick is not different, he will need great QB play if his team is going to be really successful. They are 3-4 with 2 wins against Jets and 1 vs Texans. Teams who have terrible QB play. Their schedule gets much tougher. Patriots are likely going to be 7-10 or 8-9 and no post season. But, if they still had Brady, they would be a Superbowl contender and likely 6-1 right now.

I would agree with you, if two coaches were handed teams and told to prepare for a game against each other next week.
Coaches are involved in the draft process and then develop that talent within a scheme that hopefully matches the talent.
Talent is not an incidental aspect of their situation that they have no control over.

Brady moved from a team that routinely drafted at the end of rounds, to one that routinely drafted at the beginning.
Tampa was an all ready loaded team, who happened to hit it big in the draft that Spring; they were held back by the qb position.
Gronk also came along...can Brady win without Gronk?

Belichick is rebuilding....the legends have moved on.
If New England doesn't compete in two years, then you can shovel dirt on him

[Bolt4Knob]

I agree, I think coaching can swing a win or two. Bad coaching and what should have been 10-7 is 8-9. Or vice versa. What should have been 8-9 is 10-7 with better game planning and in game adjustment and decisions. But overall it would be more about roster talent, health and most importantly QB play.

Belichick biggest difference for his team last year and this year compared to previous years has been QB play. A big drop off there and the record also has dropped. Not surprising at all.

Hoodie has a better record with Tom Brady at QB than without Tom Brady at QB.

I think many of the pundits think that Hoodie can just plug in a QB and the team will keep rolling. Bill Belichick is a better HC with Tom Brady as his QB.

[powderblueboy]

Critty talking smack about what a bum Hoodie is, the week of the game, boomeranged back into our face last year.
Karma was a bitch.

Critty should do like Belichick....praise him to fucking high heaven,
and after the game he can unzip the old zipper: isser:

[powderblueboy]

Belichick is a God among mortals.

An evil deity, but one none the less.

[powderblueboy]

Critty is one of those tragic figures of ancient Greek literature,
whose unyielding pride tempts the prickly caprices of fate.

This will not end well.
:freakout:

[Boltjolt]

I agree, I think coaching can swing a win or two. Bad coaching and what should have been 10-7 is 8-9. Or vice versa. What should have been 8-9 is 10-7 with better game planning and in game adjustment and decisions. But overall it would be more about roster talent, health and most importantly QB play.

Belichick biggest difference for his team last year and this year compared to previous years has been QB play. A big drop off there and the record also has dropped. Not surprising at all.

Well name a HC that has a better record without his starting QB?
BB does have winning records with Garropolo thoough it is a small example when he has started and he won with Matt freaking Cassell and nobody else has. Ill still give him some credit but Cam is awful. 8 TD passes last season and he cant throw anymore. Hasnt been able too for a 2-3 years now. Mac Jones is looking pretty decent and will get better.

[sonorajim]

Another reason I'm not on the Belichick is the best HC train is because of the asterisks on his record. Was caught cheating and fined and lost draft picks. And then cheated again, and then again. And even recently in past couple seasons, they were illegally video tapping again at a Bengals game. And that's only the ones where he is caught.
I could be the winningest poker player in the world if I new your cards because I was cheating. We all know the opponents at times would say, it's like they are in our huddle calling out our plays. Or Peyton Manning saying he would not discuss anything in the locker room in NE because he thought it was bugged. And it probably was. My opinion is that Belichick is more cheater than genius. Arians gets Brady and immediately wins the Superbowl. Great coaching?! No, not exactly the reason. It's because of Brady in a QB driven league.

My opinion is that Belichick is a great HC, perhaps the GOAT because he pushes the envelope, leaves no path unexplored that he can get away with. He's still coaching.

[Bolt4Knob]

My opinion is that Belichick is a great HC, perhaps the GOAT because he pushes the envelope, leaves no path unexplored that he can get away with. He's still coaching.

I think Belichick is the best football coach that I have seen since watching football some 45 years. Granted, I know more about the game. But for the reasons you mention
-- not afraid to lose
--teams seem very prepared
--offense might run the ball 45 times one week; next will pass it 50 times
--special teams are not a weakness
--defense pretty much sound

Somebody said of Hoodie he is one of the few head coaches that can coach every position on the team. Staley said he hopes to be that kind of coach

[Critty]

I would agree with you, if two coaches were handed teams and told to prepare for a game against each other next week.
Coaches are involved in the draft process and then develop that talent within a scheme that hopefully matches the talent.
Talent is not an incidental aspect of their situation that they have no control over.

Brady moved from a team that routinely drafted at the end of rounds, to one that routinely drafted at the beginning.
Tampa was an all ready loaded team, who happened to hit it big in the draft that Spring; they were held back by the qb position.
Gronk also came along...can Brady win without Gronk?

Belichick is rebuilding....the legends have moved on.
If New England doesn't compete in two years, then you can shovel dirt on him

Well it's easy to shovel dirt after you wait and watch what happens. That's an easy take to have. I'm out in front saying he won't do jack squat unless he get a top 10 QB. Until he does he will just be average or sub 500.