Patriots at Chargers Pregame Discussion (wk 8)

[Critty]

Critty talking smack about what a bum Hoodie is, the week of the game, boomeranged back into our face last year.
Karma was a bitch.

Critty should do like Belichick....praise him to fucking high heaven,
and after the game he can unzip the old zipper: isser:

Lol. Not every take ages well.
I have other takes that aged better, like when Brady left for Tampa, I claimed Belichick would miss post season while Brady would compete for a Superbowl. I got flamed by many that thought Brady was getting too old and Belichick was too great to miss post season.

Nobody using my post as bulletin board material. My take hand no impact on the Chargers getting their butts kicked that day. Everybody failed. There were many players on the field that day that are no longer on the roster today. And the coaching staff is gone.

So here is a new take.
Staley outcoaches Belicheats and Herbert outplays Jones.
Chargers 30
Patriots 20

[Critty]

I think Belichick is the best football coach that I have seen since watching football some 45 years. Granted, I know more about the game. But for the reasons you mention
-- not afraid to lose
--teams seem very prepared
--offense might run the ball 45 times one week; next will pass it 50 times
--special teams are not a weakness
--defense pretty much sound

Somebody said of Hoodie he is one of the few head coaches that can coach every position on the team. Staley said he hopes to be that kind of coach

He was caught cheating multiple times. It's easy for me to play poker against you if I know your cards. If you said Critty is the goat poker player, not afraid to go all in, very prepared, will switch from aggressive to conservative at the right times. Well, you know I was caught cheating multiple times. So yes, I am very prepared. I know your cards!

I give him credit he found a legal way to cheat with illegible receivers one season that no other coach had done before, but the very next season they made it illegal to line up that way.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

[Guest]

You put too much stock in stats imo.

Speed is great but it isnt everything. So many dudes that are fast but arent good route runners and dont have good instincts or agility or just arent smart players and got by on speed and talent alone in College. That dont work well in the NFL. Everyone in the NFL has talent but then there is NFL talent which is elite. Those guys are excelling. Jerry Rice was not a 4.4 WR. He wwas one of those Molasses types you mention. But he played fast and was quick. Chad Johnson was a 4.65 guy.

Mac Jones does not have a good arm which is another thing you think QBs need to have, nor did Brees.
He is playing well as a rookie and will get better so that 7.2 YPA means little right now but he is a rookie and they are doing what they feel is best for him right now. You complained about Burrows 6.8 YPA last year and this year it is way up. Its a part of improving and growing.

You do know a West Coast offense isnt a stretch the field offense right? Not saying that is what the Patriots run but there are WCO in the league and have been for years. You keep mentioning stretching the field and every team does that but WCO dont do it as much. WE dont do it as much as last years offense did but you wont accept that lol. We are running a lot of bunch formations than we did last season. I assume if we are behind a lot you will see more spread out formations but against Baltimore, nothing seemed to be working. It happens sometimes.

I think you are missing almost every point I have been making.

I have focused on elite, plus or bankable traits for players at various positions. All other things being equal, the presence of these traits is always better than their absence. A Justin Herbert with Justin Herbert's arm strength is better than a Justin Herbert in every other respect equal with Philip Rivers' arm strength. If you want to challenge that assertion, we will just have to agree to disagree.

The citing of the lack of WR speed for the Patriots (except for Agholor) was not mentioned for the purpose of claiming that they suck. They are NFL WRs and have had some success over the years. It was mentioned for my position that I do not think we should play the same kind of deep coverage focused defense that we played against KC. Their lack of speed means that they will struggle to beat us over the top when compared to WRs like Tyreek Hill.

That does not mean that a slow WR can absolutely never get deep, but just reflects the reality that WRs like Guyton and Johnson are better at that than Keenan Allen, a much slower WR, is because of their deep speed. That is why they call it "deep speed".

Similarly, the YPA of Mac Jones was raised along with his completion percentage to establish the mathematical fact that the Patriots are completing shorter passes than other teams. If your completion percentage is higher and your YPA is lower, it is the case, mathematically, that your completed passes are shorter. This proves that the Patriots are completing shorter passes. There was no attempt in that to malign Jones on the basis of that fact alone.

So why does that matter? Well, it matters because if that is what they do (throw short), then we should consider trying to take that away instead of playing deep coverage like we did against KC. And the concern of the consequences for playing more aggressively on defense (getting burned by longer passes) is mitigated by the slowness of the WRs.

That was the point of why those stats and measurables were raised. Yet, you somehow missed the point of it all.

As for offense, I have no question that we are stretching the field horizontally. In fact, we are doing that too much. The issue is that we are throwing a lot, lot, lot of passes in the longer short and medium range, which has traditionally been the primary range for interceptions to take place.

Further, it is illogical to stretch the field horizontally and not do so vertically. That is just trading one defended area for another (turning the defended area on its side). We have a player on our roster with a great deep passing arm and another player on the roster who has proven that he can get separation on deep passes with some regularity and we are not allowing that combination to flourish.

The formations do not really matter that much when it comes to sending Guyton deep. And it isn't just that we are doing that less. It is that we are basically not doing that at all.

There is minimal risk involved in dialing up some deep passing plays and the benefit of those plays is that they can change the course of games in our favor and they can force defenses to account for the deep passing game. Not using something at all that was such a strength last year is just conceptually stupid.

[Critty]

Well name a HC that has a better record without his starting QB?
BB does have winning records with Garropolo thoough it is a small example when he has started and he won with Matt freaking Cassell and nobody else has. Ill still give him some credit but Cam is awful. 8 TD passes last season and he cant throw anymore. Hasnt been able too for a 2-3 years now. Mac Jones is looking pretty decent and will get better.

What do you mean he won with Cassell and nobody else did?
Cassell after going 10-5 with 20td and 11int as the Patriots starter was signed by KC. In his 2nd season with Chiefs he went 10-5 with 27td and 7int as a starter under Todd Haley. Cassell made the pro bowl that year and went to playoff. Lost in Rd 1.

And Shanahan went to Superbowl with Jimmy G.

So those QBs are not really good examples of Belichick doing things others can't do, you know, since others actually did.

[Bolt4Knob]

He was caught cheating multiple times. It's easy for me to play poker against you if I know your cards. If you said Critty is the goat poker player, not afraid to go all in, very prepared, will switch from aggressive to conservative at the right times. Well, you know I was caught cheating multiple times. So yes, I am very prepared. I know your cards!

I give him credit he found a legal way to cheat with illegible receivers one season that no other coach had done before, but the very next season they made it illegal to line up that way.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

Multiple times - I only remember spy gate?

[Boltjolt]

Well it's easy to shovel dirt after you wait and watch what happens. That's an easy take to have. I'm out in front saying he won't do jack squat unless he get a top 10 QB. Until he does he will just be average or sub 500.

I think thats true of every HC today. Its a QB leafgue set up for offense. Tom Brady lst Monday night told Peyton on his MNF broadcast that the league he entered 20 years ago isnt the league it is now. He said the toughness is gone from where it used to be. The safties basically cant hit nobody without a flag half the time. Said he recalls playing a ttough Steelers defense years ago and it just isnt that way anymore.

Likely why,.....and this is my opinjon.......he keeps raising his age to when he thinks he can play til. He has said its too easy compared to how it used to be.

So......when i see QBs like Tebow who couldnt hit the broadside of a barn in the NFL , guys like Lock, Keenum, Darnold, Hurts, Daniel Jones, Geno, even Mayfield.......you get my drift....when i see those types struggling in a league that has never been easier, then they just arent going to be very good as NFL QBs. Mayfield has weapons and he still is barely above average.

So in todays league yes, you are right.......EVERY team needs a top 10 QB to succeed.

[Guest]

I think Belichick is the best football coach that I have seen since watching football some 45 years. Granted, I know more about the game. But for the reasons you mention
-- not afraid to lose
--teams seem very prepared
--offense might run the ball 45 times one week; next will pass it 50 times
--special teams are not a weakness
--defense pretty much sound

Somebody said of Hoodie he is one of the few head coaches that can coach every position on the team. Staley said he hopes to be that kind of coach

Belichick is a better HC than Brady is a QB.

Brady was nothing special until 2007. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but he has been incredibly fortunate over the course of his career. Tampa Bay represents just the latest example of that.

Tampa Bay was 7-9 with a +9 scoring differential with 30 INT Jameis Winston at QB and without the additions of Gronk, Brown, Fournette, Wirfs, a healthy Devin White, Winfield, et cetera, in addition to Brady. They were a playoff team with even an average QB before any of the new and healthy faces joined/returned to the team.

Look at what their defense did in the playoffs last year. They would have won it all with virtually any decent QB. In the playoffs, they got to play a 7 win team in WAS. They forced 4 turnovers against NO. They forced two turnovers and had 5 sacks in overcoming 3 Brady INTs to beat GB. And they forced 2 INTs and only gave up 9 points to KC. If Kirk Cousins or Matt Ryan were playing for Tampa Bay last season, they would have been every bit of the Super Bowl winning QB that Brady was last year.

[Boltjolt]

What do you mean he won with Cassell and nobody else did?
Cassell after going 10-5 with 20td and 11int as the Patriots starter was signed by KC. In his 2nd season with Chiefs he went 10-5 with 27td and 7int as a starter under Todd Haley. Cassell made the pro bowl that year and went to playoff. Lost in Rd 1.

And Shanahan went to Superbowl with Jimmy G.

So those QBs are not really good examples of Belichick doing things others can't do, you know, since others actually did.

Hmm, ok Cassell had one more good season lol. Amazing because he fell hard after that. Point is, BB drafted those guys and won with them. He took Cleveland to the playoffs once.

[Fleet 1]

[Critty]

Multiple times - I only remember spy gate?

Well the spygate itself was like 40 times he cheated.
then there was deflagrate, he claimed he knew nothing about.
Then in 2019 his staff was again caught illegally taping at the Bengals game. And then there are the malfunction headsets of opponents in New England and just when the refs are about to enforce the rule that if headset malfunction then both teams can't use them, they start working again. Said Tomlin, after the game "that always the case" that they magically start working again when Belichick needs it. And Patriots staffers admitted stealing play sheets from visitors locker room.
The have been fined the max multiple times for breaking the rules and have lost multiple 1st Rd picks over the Belichick era.

The great all time wins leader hall of fame HC Don Shula has called him Belicheat for years.

[Critty]

Hmm, ok Cassell had one more good season lol. Amazing because he fell hard after that. Point is, BB drafted those guys and won with them. He took Cleveland to the playoffs once.

Belichick is a solid HC. But having the Goat QB and also with the cheating scandals, it just doesn't give me confidence to say he is one of the greatest because I don't know what he would be accomplishing without Brady and the cheating.

Butch Davis took new expansion Cleveland to playoffs once with Tim Couch and Kelly Holcomb as his QBs in 2002.

Belichick took the old Browns(Ravens franchise) to post season once in 1994 with veteran QBs Testaverde and Rypien a former Superbowl champ QB. So it wasn't like he was working with the new Browns expansion team and young QBs.

If he wins now without Brady and there are no more cheating scandals, then I'll give him much more credit if that happens, but I'm not counting on it, I'm betting against it.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

https://www.patspulpit.com/2021/10/28/22750935/patriots-jc-jackson-chargers-passing-game-not-really-a-big-challenge

Asked how big of a challenge the Los Angeles passing game is on Thursday, New England’s number one cornerback gave a straight-forward answer.

“I mean, it’s not really a big challenge,” he said. “I mean, we just have to do what we do best: play our football and trust each other, trust our teammates.”

“I respect the guy,” Jackson said. “He’s a great route-runner. He’s slick with it, and he’s got hands.”

Bulletin board material.

KA. MW. Torch this guy. Dazzle JC Jackson with your play.