Chargers @ Raiders Game Day Thread / Post Game Discussion (Wk 18)

[northerner]

These things stood out to me about last night's game.

1. Going for it on 4th down and 1 from our own 19 is fine, but Lombardi has repeatedly failed to understand that we are not a running team (even after having been stopped on the play before). Unless it is 4th down and half a yard or less, we need to be passing the ball or trusting Herbert to run for it if nobody is open.

2. Tyron Johnson shoved it in our face big time by forcing a key fumble that changed the game early on, by drawing a holding penalty on special teams, and by giving the Raiders good field position with a couple of his returns. By the way, wasn't one of the big knocks against Johnson mentioned by several on this forum that he could not play special teams?

3. When we had the momentum at the end of the game, and given our struggles on defense, I really wanted us to go for two after the Williams TD with no time remaining. Again, with the game on the line, put the ball in Herbert's hands. I can live with whatever happens in that situation. I like our chances in that situation. Instead, we ended up losing for the second time this season because we lost the OT coin toss. In one scenario, we guarantee that Herbert gets a chance to win it for us. In the other, we do not.

4. On a very positive note, when Herbert made absolutely perfect throws to Palmer (on 4th and 21) and Williams (with no time left) for the late 4th quarter TDs and the absolutely perfect throw to Ekeler for the critical two point conversion, I really felt like I could identify with Neo's colleagues in the Matrix when they proclaimed, "He is the one!" We have the best QB in the NFL right now and that is a really good thing going forward. And I have to believe that our being two seconds from the playoffs and not getting in is going to make our players a little salty for next year, which is also a good thing.

5. I understand why the team chose to focus on the OL in the past offseason at the expense of keeping some of our players on defense or adding more players on defense. Protecting Herbert is of vital importance. But I am hoping that aside from locking down Williams and shoring up the right side of the OL, we put a lot of the considerable resources we have (draft picks and cap room) into upgrading the defense. The defense was just too soft for much too much of the season.

#1 - the game was so tight at the time, I would have kicked.

#2 - sometimes a change of scenery works for a guy - I can't explain it, but it is very true in baseball sometimes, and i guess in the NFL as well.

#3 - I agree. if we are going to go for it on 4th down from our 19 yard line, why not go for the 2 point dagger at the end of regulation?

#4 - 100x this - when JH got us to overtime, my feeling was that our defense will never hold up for a playoff run this season, but we have to get a defense and then let Herbert do his thing. when the scores was 29-14 i was thinking that people will say they picked the wrong Pro Bowl starter. however, at 29-29 everybody fucking knew that Herbert is a stud. the OT was a crap shoot.

#5 - 200x this - lock up Williams, RT on offense - and after that EVERYTHING goes to defense (free agency, draft, etc.). No more swiss cheese on defense that can't stop the run.

items 4 and 5 kept from getting angry after the OT - we've got Herbert and now we need a defense for a championship run.

[PhilaBoltster]

This is a pretty good summation of what happened and the potential thought process.

IMO, the Raiders were 100% satisfied with the tie at that point. 38 seconds left and 3rd down.

Staley's TO acted as reset button.

Wrong.

Watch it again if you DVR’d it.

The Raiders were about to snap the ball to run a real play with 4 seconds left on the play clock. They were not kneeling down.

Now who’s to say if that play would have been as successful as the next play. 20/20 hindsight, sure I’d have preferred to see what would have happened, probably not a 10
yard run. We’ll never know. But the Raiders were running a play to get as many yards as they could.

[Velo]

Is Herbert saying to Staley, "I never wanted a tie so bad?"

[KrazyLegs]

Wrong.

Watch it again if you DVR’d it.

The Raiders were about to snap the ball to run a real play with 4 seconds left on the play clock. They were not kneeling down.

Now who’s to say if that play would have been as successful as the next play. 20/20 hindsight, sure I’d have preferred to see what would have happened, probably not a 10
yard run. We’ll never know. But the Raiders were running a play to get as many yards as they could.

I never said they weren't running a play.

But they came out in a different formation after the timeout.

Something clearly changed.

And I'm not even blaming Staley. He thought that he didn't have the right players on the field in that situation, so he did what coaches are supposed to do.

Unfortunately, it backfired. And this isn't something anyone can really prepare for. This was a once-in-a-lifetime situation.

[PhilaBoltster]

What about the decision to go for it on 4th down from the Chargers' 18 yd line? Fortunately, the Chargers' D held the Raiders to a FG, but it was a cheap 3 pts for the Raiders that was a big factor in the score at the end of regulation.

Yes we lost 3 pts there.
But going for it on 4th and 2 in the 2nd quarter instead of an easy FG resulted in a Ekeler TD. Were you ok with that?

[Boltx]

I never said they weren't running a play.

But they came out in a different formation after the timeout.

Something clearly changed.

And I'm not even blaming Staley. He thought that he didn't have the right players on the field in that situation, so he did what coaches are supposed to do.

Unfortunately, it backfired. And this isn't something anyone can really prepare for. This was a once-in-a-lifetime situation.

If you believe Staley, we had the wrong personnel in there to stop the run. So yes, while the Raiders did change their formation coming out of the TO, who's to say that their "pre TO" play wouldn't have gone for an even bigger gain, setting up a chip shot FG? Or even a walk off TD?

The notion that Staley's TO "irked" the Raiders into going from settling for a tie to going for the FG is simply asinine. Josh Jacobs was killing us, all they had to do was run a couple of half back dives and they would have gained as many yards as they needed/wanted.

Nothing upsets me more than a team running for a first down on you on 3rd and 4+. It's one of the most demoralizing things in the game IMO.

[richpjr]

#2 - sometimes a change of scenery works for a guy - I can't explain it, but it is very true in baseball sometimes, and i guess in the NFL as well.

Maybe, but not in this case. Johnson had 2 catches for 16 yards with the Jags before getting cut and has zero catches with the Raiders. Yep, he made a good ST play to force a fumble but that wasn't the argument for keeping him by some here - it was how great of a WR he was.

[Boltx]

Is Herbert saying to Staley, "I never wanted a tie so bad?"

Kind of heartbreaking to see, in a way. Guy had one of most epic performances ever, and not much to show for it today. Ugh.

[powderblueboy]

Prisoner of the moment.

If his aggressive coaching decisions cost him the Raiders game and the KC game, it also won him the Browns, Bengals and previous KC game. IMO, his overall aggressiveness and win it on my terms strategy was a plus 1 in wins for the year.

If he goes the conventional punt and take the FG style all year, then I think this team is 8-8 going into last night game and already eliminated from playoff contention.

The 29th rated defense is another reason to go for it as often as he does. You can question his genius. But Ramsey is a much better CB1 than Davis. And having a player like Ramsey would change last night game. Having a better RT would also change last night game.

We all know the rosters under Telesco have had horrible special teams often, horrible o-line play often. Average defense roster with a couple good players. Etc. The only thing Telesco ever seems to be able to do is have a good QB and a couple good WR. That not enough to win in this league and his record with 3 different coaches shows what type of program he has built.

Fire Telesco.
Let Staley have final say on draft and free agency.
Staley aggressiveness means he would make a trade for a Ramsey type player if he thinks that is what he needs to help unlock how well his defense can play. The man is all in in to win it. And if you keep Telesco it's in title only. Staley should get final say in draft and free agency.

The Browns/Chiefs game were in the first month of the season: it caught a lot of teams by surprise. Every fourth down play was a success for awhile, and their was no crazy decisions about going for it in your own redzone.

Teams have prepared for it and the success rate has plummeted. It should have been expected analytically speaking. If Staley was actually driven by analytics, he would have believed that eventually there will be a big regression to the mean. Once that came, he instead doubled down on it like a drunken gambler hoping the old success would reassert itself with the next gambit.

I'm fine with firing Telesco; i would also not want to hamstring the incoming GM by having to stick with Staley, Lombo and crew, should he not wish it: a very real possibility.

[Velo]

Kind of heartbreaking to see, in a way. Guy had one of most epic performances ever, and not much to show for it today. Ugh.

Quoted for truth! I feel the same.

[jamrock]

If you believe Staley, we had the wrong personnel in there to stop the run. So yes, while the Raiders did change their formation coming out of the TO, who's to say that their "pre TO" play wouldn't have gone for an even bigger gain, setting up a chip shot FG? Or even a walk off TD?

The notion that Staley's TO "irked" the Raiders into going from settling for a tie to going for the FG is simply asinine. Josh Jacobs was killing us, all they had to do was run a couple of half back dives and they would have gained as many yards as they needed/wanted.

Nothing upsets me more than a team running for a first down on you on 3rd and 4+. It's one of the most demoralizing things in the game IMO.

How bout running for a first down on 3rd and 23?

[powderblueboy]

If you believe Staley, we had the wrong personnel in there to stop the run. So yes, while the Raiders did change their formation coming out of the TO, who's to say that their "pre TO" play wouldn't have gone for an even bigger gain, setting up a chip shot FG? Or even a walk off TD?

The notion that Staley's TO "irked" the Raiders into going from settling for a tie to going for the FG is simply asinine. Josh Jacobs was killing us, all they had to do was run a couple of half back dives and they would have gained as many yards as they needed/wanted.

Nothing upsets me more than a team running for a first down on you on 3rd and 4+. It's one of the most demoralizing things in the game IMO.

And so he preceded to put the defense in an even worse run alignment than without the timeout.
A horrible alignment, an incompetent alignment, a completely outflanked alignment....something a quality defensive mind would not do.
There are a lot of gaps and grey areas in Staley's experience with NFL defenses....maybe another summer coaching seminar will do the trick.

Las Vegas was running the football, or slipping a tight end out somewhere; how can you not get properly aligned for this after a timeout?