Joe Lombardi Discussion

[powderblueboy]

I wish someone would define what is "open". Relative to other QBs and WRs, our receivers for the most part are open. If Lombardi's definition of an open receiver is a 5 to 10 yard cushion from a defender, you aren't likely to find very many of these opportunities down field. You can scheme some reads open in this fashion for specific downs, but it's impossible to do that throughout an entire game. Even above average or top end WRs are draped by a defender or or boxed by two in most of their snaps, yet they still get their targets in those situations more often than not. What I see is that this coaching staff has coached into Herbert an unnecessary level of risk aversion, where now he's questioning his accuracy in tight window throws and checking it down behind or close to the line of scrimmage because he's looking for that safety cushion to minimize risk. If we want to play this way offensively, there isn't a need for a Herbert as your QB - you may as well plug and play Baker Mayfield into this offense, or start Chase Daniel.

I mean, I understand why a coach would want to run an efficiency based offense such as this, as it allows for slower, methodical drives predicated on 3rd down conversions, thus allowing your defense to rest and your offense to control time of possession while minimizing mistakes. Unfortunately, since this offense lives or dies on 3rd down situations, if it fails, your gameplan is flipped on its head, and now your defense is taking more snaps then the offense thus tiring them out sooner, and your offense loses all semblance of momentum. That's not to mention that this offense does absolutely nothing to utilize Herbert's unique talents.

Nice post.

You need talent and coaching: miss out on either and you lose more often than not.

[richpjr]

I wish someone would define what is "open". Relative to other QBs and WRs, our receivers for the most part are open. If Lombardi's definition of an open receiver is a 5 to 10 yard cushion from a defender, you aren't likely to find very many of these opportunities down field. You can scheme some reads open in this fashion for specific downs, but it's impossible to do that throughout an entire game. Even above average or top end WRs are draped by a defender or or boxed by two in most of their snaps, yet they still get their targets in those situations more often than not. What I see is that this coaching staff has coached into Herbert an unnecessary level of risk aversion, where now he's questioning his accuracy in tight window throws and checking it down behind or close to the line of scrimmage because he's looking for that safety cushion to minimize risk. If we want to play this way offensively, there isn't a need for a Herbert as your QB - you may as well plug and play Baker Mayfield into this offense, or start Chase Daniel.

I mean, I understand why a coach would want to run an efficiency based offense such as this, as it allows for slower, methodical drives predicated on 3rd down conversions, thus allowing your defense to rest and your offense to control time of possession while minimizing mistakes. Unfortunately, since this offense lives or dies on 3rd down situations, if it fails, your gameplan is flipped on its head, and now your defense is taking more snaps then the offense thus tiring them out sooner, and your offense loses all semblance of momentum. That's not to mention that this offense does absolutely nothing to utilize Herbert's unique talents.

No, our receivers are not open for the most part, especially when Allen is out.

[powderblueboy]

No, our receivers are not open for the most part, especially when Allen is out.

In the New Orleans scheme under Brees/Lombo, receivers got position on a cb, being at the right spot at the right time.
They typically don't get steps advantages on dbs.

Lombo said coming in that every route came down to inches....that receivers had to be precise route runners.
That is why the only speed receivers they brought in in two years came off the waiver wire,
and why one of them couldn't stick despite a little bit of success here.

[Topcat]

Bill Belichick respectfully disagrees with this.

Ah, now, that is the THIRD possibility...a very good coach and a talented team = frequent playoff and SB appearances...add cheating into the mix and your percentages maximize exponentially...

[richpjr]

Ah, now, that is the THIRD possibility...a very good coach and a talented team = frequent playoff and SB appearances...add cheating into the mix and your percentages maximize exponentially...

That wasn't my point - it was Belichick is one of the winningest coaches ever, but his team is not as talented, especially at QB, so even the best can't win without some talent.

[21&500]

Being "open" is relative to the QBs ability
considering we've seen Herbert regularly make throws into tiny windows, I'd say he has a generous definition of "open"

If Herbert isn't throwing it to a WR in crucial situations, I safely assume they are NOT open.

[Boltjolt]

Which matters more to winning,coaching or players?

I think you need both. Keenan makes the offense better than Bandy does.

[jamrock]

That wasn't my point - it was Belichick is one of the winningest coaches ever, but his team is not as talented, especially at QB, so even the best can't win without some talent.

You need some talent but the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassell. They’re 6-5 with Max Jones and not much else on offense. What separates him from the pack is that he seems to get the most out of whomever he has. JC Jackson is an example we should all be familiar with. He was an all pro at NE and got benched with the chargers. Meanwhile the no name guy that replaced him has something like 3 picks already this season. The new Mr Int while the guy we got is Mr IR

[Topcat]

You need some talent but the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassell. They’re 6-5 with Max Jones and not much else on offense. What separates him from the pack is that he seems to get the most out of whomever he has. JC Jackson is an example we should all be familiar with. He was an all pro at NE and got benched with the chargers. Meanwhile the no name guy that replaced him has something like 3 picks already this season. The new Mr Int while the guy we got is Mr IR

Yep...true...Belicheat is really good at coaching up marginal players, AND getting nice mileage out of older FA's...

[Boltjolt]

You need some talent but the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassell. They’re 6-5 with Max Jones and not much else on offense. What separates him from the pack is that he seems to get the most out of whomever he has. JC Jackson is an example we should all be familiar with. He was an all pro at NE and got benched with the chargers. Meanwhile the no name guy that replaced him has something like 3 picks already this season. The new Mr Int while the guy we got is Mr IR

I'd take both Jacoby Meyers and Henry from their offense. Stevenson is a good RB as well. Next to Ekeker he would be our #2.

[richpjr]

You need some talent but the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassell. They’re 6-5 with Max Jones and not much else on offense. What separates him from the pack is that he seems to get the most out of whomever he has. JC Jackson is an example we should all be familiar with. He was an all pro at NE and got benched with the chargers. Meanwhile the no name guy that replaced him has something like 3 picks already this season. The new Mr Int while the guy we got is Mr IR

They were 10-5 in games he started and failed to make the playoffs. We are 5-5 and have half our team wiped out by injury, including our QB playing hurt for half the season. Should Staley get the same credit you give Belichick?

[lightsout42]

Yep...true...Belicheat is really good at coaching up marginal players, AND getting nice mileage out of older FA's...

AND getting one-year rentals who play hard and then turn into comp picks.