Until John Spanos is Gone, Nothing Will Ever Change - Locked By Fleet - John LIstened

[BlazingBolt]

The complete lack of doing anything with significant personnel wise before the trade deadline during our bye week probably has me the most frustrated I have ever been as a Chargers fan. WTF are we even doing? We either think we are so good we don’t need to improve or that we’re so bad it’s not worth wasting any draft capital for this season and both those answers I find completely unacceptable. Telescoe clearly doesn’t not feel any pressure in his job to win any time soon. That he has such security is complete insanity by ownership. My only hope is that Sean Payton wanted them to keep as many bullets as they could ready for when he takes over next year and they are already pretty much set for it to go that way

[richpjr]

The complete lack of doing anything with significant personnel wise before the trade deadline during our bye week probably has me the most frustrated I have ever been as a Chargers fan. WTF are we even doing? We either think we are so good we don’t need to improve or that we’re so bad it’s not worth wasting any draft capital for this season and both those answers I find completely unacceptable. Telescoe clearly doesn’t not feel any pressure in his job to win any time soon. That he has such security is complete insanity by ownership. My only hope is that Sean Payton wanted them to keep as many bullets as they could ready for when he takes over next year and they are already pretty much set for it to go that way

Popper's explanation:

Why did our team not make any moves? — @KuckooC

I received about 100 different versions of this question, so I will start here. And while in a perfect world there would be some sort of clear-cut, tidy answer, that is just not the case.

As with pretty much anything that happens in the NFL — both on and off the field — the answer is nuanced.

There are two primary overarching facets a team must consider when making a trade for a player.

1. Does the value the team is receiving align with or outweigh the value the team is giving up?

2. Does the player the team is acquiring fit into the salary cap structure, both for this current season and beyond?

The criteria change from team to team and from year to year depending on a number of factors. In the case of the Chargers, general manager Tom Telesco has always used and will continue to use — as long as he is in his position — very stringent criteria when it comes to trading for players. And even more specifically, when trading draft capital for players. Telesco has only swapped picks for a player three times in his 10 seasons as GM. Two of those were for conditional seventh-round picks. The third was Khalil Mack this past offseason.

That is not some coincidence. Telesco does not believe in making trades for the sole purpose of making trades. He is not going to trade for a player based on name recognition. If he is going to trade for a player, he has to believe that player has quality football left — preferably ascending, but at the very least not declining. He has to feel comfortable with the player’s injury history. All that goes into the value calculation.

Then the salary cap fit has to make sense. The Chargers have $4.97 million in cap space this season. They are already $3.35 million over the projected cap for 2023, according to Over The Cap. They can make moves to get under the cap, like cutting corner Michael Davis ($7.4 million in savings, per OTC) and Allen (up to $17.5 million in savings, per OTC). But they are functioning with less wiggle room next offseason than they were in previous offseasons.

And I want to be clear about one thing: I am not defending Telesco here; I am merely trying to provide context into the thought process.

In the end, Telesco made calls around the league — as he does every year to gauge the market — and he felt like the players available did not fit one or both of those two overarching facets.

I can see the Chargers’ logic for passing on most of the deals that were made in the markets they could have been active in: receiver and edge rusher. Not all, though, which I will get to.

The Bears traded a second-round pick to the Steelers for receiver Chase Claypool. That is a very steep price for a player with moderate production. Claypool, who is on his rookie deal, is also in line for an extension either this offseason or next. The Chargers already paid Williams this past offseason. Allen right now is still on the books for a $21.7 million cap hit next offseason.

The Chiefs traded a third-round compensatory pick and a sixth-round pick to the Giants for receiver Kadarius Toney. Toney has only played in 12 of a possible 25 games so far in his NFL career because of injuries.

The Cardinals traded a fifth-round pick and a seventh-round pick to the Panthers for receiver Robbie Anderson. I think this was decent value, and his speed would have helped the Chargers injured receiving group, with Jalen Guyton (torn ACL) out for the season. But the salary cap fit was not there. Anderson is due $12 million in 2023, according to Over The Cap. And while it is non-guaranteed money, that changes if Anderson was to get injured this season. If Anderson makes it through the season and is healthy enough to pass a physical, the Chargers could have cut him and saved all $12 million. However, if he gets injured and is not healthy enough to pass that physical, the Chargers would be on the hook for a portion of that money. And that is a big risk to take with how tight the books are for 2023.

Denzel Mims and Elijah Moore both requested trades, but the Jets made it clear they were not dealing either of those players. In addition, Moore is upset with how many targets he is getting. What happens when Williams and Allen are back and Moore is in a similar position to the one he is in now in New York — as the third or fourth receiver and the fifth or sixth receiving option in the offense?

The Texans seemed open to trading Brandin Cooks, but he is due $18 million in guaranteed salary next season.

The Chargers were never going to make a desperation trade for a receiver, despite the outside noise. Allen should be back soon, possibly as soon as this week. He did not practice Monday, and we will know more when the Chargers return to practice Wednesday. They were off Tuesday. Williams is making progress, and I think it is reasonable to expect him back by Week 12 at the Cardinals. Joshua Palmer was back in individual drills Monday after suffering a concussion in Week 6. Allen, Williams and Palmer — the Chargers’ top three receivers entering this season — have played just 13 offensive snaps together this season, according to TruMedia.

“I really want to see that group out there together playing because that hasn’t been able to happen yet so far this season,” coach Brandon Staley said of the trio last week.

As far as edge rusher, the Chargers are very thin right now. Bosa is out for the foreseeable future, though the team expects him to return for multiple games at the end of the year. The Week 14 home game against the Dolphins would be 10 weeks from the surgery, and Staley initially put a six- to 10-week timetable on the recovery. Chris Rumph II has a sprained MCL he suffered in Week 7 and was still in a brace when I saw him in the locker room Monday.

The Dolphins made a blockbuster trade, sending a first-round pick along with running back Chase Edmonds and a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for Bradley Chubb and a fifth-round pick. The Broncos were unlikely to trade Chubb within the division. A first-round pick is a lot. The Chargers would have needed the Broncos to take on some salary to make Chubb fit into their cap for this season. Chubb is also slated to be a free agent after this season and will command a lucrative new deal. The Chargers already have two premium edge rusher contracts in their cap sheet between Bosa and Mack.

The one trade the Chargers absolutely should have made was for Robert Quinn. Eagles GM Howie Roseman gave up a fourth-round pick to the Bears for Quinn, who is off to a slow start this season but was one of the best pass rushers in football last year. The Bears, in turn, took on virtually all of his 2022 salary. Quinn’s cap hit for the rest of this season is just less than $700,000, according to Over The Cap. Quinn is a free agent after this season, so there is no future money to consider.

The draft pick value aligned. The salary cap fit made sense. The Chargers need edge rusher depth while Bosa and Rumph recover — and they could have used the depth when those two players return. I do not have a good explanation for why the Chargers did not make this trade. I also thought they could have made a deal for Houston edge rusher Jerry Hughes, who is only due $2.25 million in guaranteed salary next season. Both of these feel like missed opportunities.

Robert Quinn, traded from the Bears to the Eagles, would have made a lot of sense for the Chargers. (Bill Streicher / USA Today)

I do not think the Chargers’ inactivity at the deadline indicates anything about how Telesco and Staley view their job security. Both are process-oriented individuals. They relied on that process, as I detailed above, and it led to them standing pat.

They really believe that the injured players returning will give the team the jolt it needs. The season is banking on them being right.

At some point, you have to question how good the process is working...

[Bolt4Knob]

Popper's explanation:



At some point, you have to question how good the process is working...

At least popper said they made calls
And he is right about Quinn - that was a no brainer
As for Anderson - anybody can get hurt - thats just playing scared. And I understand the 2023 Chargers cap - its actually worse than Popper says as he is not taking into account the 53 man roster, draft class, etc. So realistically -t he Chargers are closer to 10m over the cap right now for 2023

I will give Popper the benefit that have to see how the season finishes. But if they don't make the playoffs, Telesco should be out of a job. Period. Ten years, no divisions, two play-offs. Thats not good enough

[21&500]

I can live with Poppers explanation.
I would have liked to have pursued Moore more and risk having him leave after his rookie contract.
I think we are a dynamic WR away from competing against the elite AFC teams, namely Bills and KC

[Velo]

When AJ stopped drafting the BPA and started drafting reaches to plug holes, the team started in the downward spiral.

You mean Jonas Mouton wasn't the BPA?

[richpjr]

I can live with Poppers explanation.
I would have liked to have pursued Moore more and risk having him leave after his rookie contract.
I think we are a dynamic WR away from competing against the elite AFC teams, namely Bills and KC

Here is Staley answering Popper:

[Bolt4Knob]

You mean Jonas Mouton wasn't the BPA?

I forgot about that guy. Second round pick

[Air Coryell]

I forgot about that guy. Second round pick

Nothing worse for me than the final 3 or 4 years under Bobby Beathard. He would trade next years 1st round pick during the current draft for a 2nd round pick. Did that many times. Kept leaving us without a 1st round pick. Then he would pick a lot of small college guys hoping to hit a home run.

[CanadianBoltFan]

I can live with Poppers explanation.
I would have liked to have pursued Moore more and risk having him leave after his rookie contract.
I think we are a dynamic WR away from competing against the elite AFC teams, namely Bills and KC

It sure feels like that.

Look at Miami...have moved well past the Chargers in NFL perception as a contender this year and look how Tua is now being perceived. All he has to do is get the ball into the hands of 2 dynamic playmakers and he is targeting them profusely.

I mean how long are they going to waste Herbert's arm talent or at least not take advantage of some of his best assets.

[Rambler]

There are some examples of successful nepotism in the NFL. But they have been largely if not exclusively in coaching, not the front office. Wade Phillips, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay come to mind. They can get their start in a somewhat sheltered environment, but they have to prove themselves by the results they get on the field. And if they do, they move to other organizations, where they can no longer be sheltered and protected from the consequences of their coaching decisions. They have to prove themselves eventually, and the results on the field make it easier to assess their performance. John Spanos is in the front office. It is harder to judge the results of front office personnel, even the general manager, based on the results on the field, as coaching has a more immediate and observable affect on the team's present success or failure, and drafted players often need some time to develop. We also have been given very little information about what role John has in the scouting and drafting of players. And instead of working his way up from area scout, he was handed his position without having to go through the usual grind. While we do not know to what extent John Spanos has had involvement in our drafting, free agent signing and past head coaching selection failures, what we do know is that he faces no real consequences for any of these failures. He will not be fired or demoted for incompetence, even if he would otherwise deserve to be, because his dad controls the majority ownership of the team. And it creates a distracting dynamic, where the entire focus cannot be on winning, because it is probably assumed that the owner's son's reputation and ego must be protected. Is it fair for some posters to blame John Spanos? If it's not fair, then blame Dean Spanos for hiring his son. Some Spanos is to blame here.

[Boltgang74]

Only way I have made ammends with the fact the SpAnus clan own this team and have ruined my Sundays for years is the decision I've personally made that if we don't make the POs this year and stay with this coaching staff next season I have to take a break from this team as the owners are just too pathetic for me to waste my time and money any longer.I will keep an eye out if and when the next season bears the same putrid fruit to see if these cheap bastards decide to start fresh AGAIN before jumping back into watching these clowns run this circus.Screw it.

[jubei]

Only way I have made ammends with the fact the SpAnus clan own this team and have ruined my Sundays for years is the decision I've personally made that if we don't make the POs this year and stay with this coaching staff next season I have to take a break from this team as the owners are just too pathetic for me to waste my time and money any longer.I will keep an eye out if and when the next season bears the same putrid fruit to see if these cheap bastards decide to start fresh AGAIN before jumping back into watching these clowns run this circus.Screw it.

I admire your conviction. I want to do that be in all reality I probably would still watch them. But I DEFINITELY wont be directly buying any of their cr@p and whatever stupid new moniker/slogan they may come up with.