Touchy Subject....How is Derwin James "Elite"?

[21&500]

So would you say Justin Herbert is elite or not? Justin is after all a social media QB.
Dont get me wrong...I think Derwin is really good but I also thought the D played a lot more cohesively while he was out with injury. Probably cuz staley has no clue on how to properly use him so that he is elite in a small number of things...good at many things but master of none is stalebread

Good question, QBs are judged differently than any other position imo because they have tons more responsibility, and get the ball on every snap unless you're DAK haha.
Herbert is elite in every sense of the word although the similarity with James' situation is that there is so much potential under utilized or unrealized. Doesn't have the wins you'd like to see from an elite qb but I can't imagine another qb the last 3 years who can win more games with the same circumstances.

[WindsorUK]

Have any other top safety's been traded in their prime? What was the return?
DJ certainly needs a more defined role. Personally, I'd prefer he'd play at the LOS all the time( his coverage skills weren't great this year)- thump TE's/ slot WR's, rush, cover RB's.
As a 3rd level defender, we're not utilizing his best skills.

[Velo]

The Bengals are playing great defense right now with a unit that doesn't have a lot of big names. Vonn Bell is their strong safety, the same position DJ plays.

Bell earned $6.488 mil this season. His regular season stat line was:

4 INT 8 passes defensed 1 forced fumble 1 tackle for loss 0 sacks

James earned $24.584 mil this season. His regular season stat line was:

2 INT 6 passes defensed 2 forced fumble 5 tackles for loss 4 sacks

Staley uses Derwin on the LOS more than the Bengals uses Bell in that capacity. And James is pretty good at it - his stats tell the story.

But as a pass defender, Bell is better, at least he was this season.

Bell is up for a new contract in 2023. Assuming the Bengals want to retain him, they will have to pay him more than $6.5 mil. But he's not going to earn Derwin James money.

Derwin is touted as a unique player who can do it all from the SS position. But I dispute that. He is an average, at best, pass defender. Kelce beat him for a TD in the 2nd Chiefs game that gave KC a season sweep over the Chargers. The Chargers had a 4 pt lead with 37 seconds left in that game. And Kelce scored from the 17 yd line with Derwin out of position. If you want to review that play, scroll to 13:18 in the vid below.

The Chargers are paying Derwin like a player who is elite at all levels. But he is not. A safety who is an elite pass defender does not let a barely .500 team come from 27 pts behind in the playoffs and beat you.

I like some of the things Derwin does for the Chargers' defense. But, again, he is not elite. The Chargers pass defense played their best games this season when Derwin was injured. That is fact.

[RollingThunder]

Let's not sugar coat things, both Derwin and Bosa are overrated and injury prone at this point. Maybe that will change but then again they'll probably get injured soon after.

[madcaplaughs]

I'd give him that title merely for planting Kelce

[Air Coryell]

The Bengals are playing great defense right now with a unit that doesn't have a lot of big names. Vonn Bell is their strong safety, the same position DJ plays.

Bell earned $6.488 mil this season. His regular season stat line was:

4 INT 8 passes defensed 1 forced fumble 1 tackle for loss 0 sacks

James earned $24.584 mil this season. His regular season stat line was:

2 INT 6 passes defensed 2 forced fumble 5 tackles for loss 4 sacks

Staley uses Derwin on the LOS more than the Bengals uses Bell in that capacity. And James is pretty good at it - his stats tell the story.

But as a pass defender, Bell is better, at least he was this season.

Bell is up for a new contract in 2023. Assuming the Bengals want to retain him, they will have to pay him more than $6.5 mil. But he's not going to earn Derwin James money.

Derwin is touted as a unique player who can do it all from the SS position. But I dispute that. He is an average, at best, pass defender. Kelce beat him for a TD in the 2nd Chiefs game that gave KC a season sweep over the Chargers. The Chargers had a 4 pt lead with 37 seconds left in that game. And Kelce scored from the 17 yd line with Derwin out of position. If you want to review that play, scroll to 13:18 in the vid below.

The Chargers are paying Derwin like a player who is elite at all levels. But he is not. A safety who is an elite pass defender does not let a barely .500 team come from 27 pts behind in the playoffs and beat you.

I like some of the things Derwin does for the Chargers' defense. But, again, he is not elite. The Chargers pass defense played their best games this season when Derwin was injured. That is fact.

Derwin maybe elite, but you cannot pay that position 20M a year because that position does not impact a game like a DL or Edge. Does DJ impact a game like Chris Jones? No. Or like any top tier DT? No. How about like an elite edge? No. You need to have an elite defensive line and offensive line to be an elite team. Look at KC. Very poor decision by TT to pay DJ that type of money.

[Heatmiser]

Cincy is going to have a reckoning after this season.

They already said they are going to pay big bucks to Burrow before they really have to. Very un Bengal like.

They ticked off Jesse (football playin' Jesse) Bates by tagging him this season. And now they have to pay Bell, too. And they have three absolutely terrific WRs that could probably all be top dogs on other teams.

TG

[Florida fan]

Bumping his Gums?

[QuiteFrankly]

I became sort of aware of Derwin in the draft when he "surprisingly" dropped from where he was supposed to be drafted, and the Bolts got him And everyone was saying "wow we go so lucky we never thought he would be available.." .We have heard it before. BUT I have also wondered...WHY DID HE DROP?

My impressions of him since we have had him:

1. Seems to get hurt more than I like.
2. His physicality as they call it. He is a big strong guy and he can be a big intimidator in the mold of Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, Easley, Lynch..our own Rodney Harrison. By that I mean they can ring your bell, and the thought was receivers would be less comfortable about catching the ball around them. I can see Derwin is a hard hitter.

That said...because of the league rules now, that is less valuable..Not saying the receivers are not wary, but you can get penalties or seriously injured receivers. Think Tatum and Stingley. Rodney Harrison had that issue. But the advantage of that, is like someone said. He can be used sort of like a linebacker or pass rusher and he seems to be very effective at that.

So I think that is his best feature. He is very useful and physical guys like him are valuable. He can jam a big TE at the line better.

I do not think is is as good at covering as some of our other guys.

So does he have tons of highlight reels breaking up passes? No so much. But I think his strengths can be valuable if we use him the right way. Thus far I don't think the Chargers are using him in that way enough for some reason.

I honestly think thats why he always gets voted to all-pro all the time and is so respected around the league. Not because of his covering skills. But he is just a physical presence out there. DB's are such an interesting position. The balance between speed and quickness, and being able to cover, vs. size and power and being able to defend the run and hit. Which is why guys like Derwin are supposed to be so valuable. They can do both hopefully.

But if he continues to keep getting injured(pretty good this year) I will start to wane on him, similar to Bosa/Williams. Gotta stay healthy.

[jamrock]

The kid on the 49ers, picked in the 5th, makes as many or maybe more impact plays than Derwin. 5th round pick

[Lefty2SLO]

The kid on the 49ers, picked in the 5th, makes as many or maybe more impact plays than Derwin. 5th round pick

Impact plays are what matter. Not stats, or impressive hits. Make an impact that helps your team win. Watching Derwin plant Kelce at the 5 yard line was nice, but it was at the 5 YARD line. KC scored shortly thereafter. So what difference did it really make that he made a highlight reel tackle? It got play on ESPN - big whoop.

Pick the ball off, cause a fumble / turnover at a critical point in the game, make a 4th down stop. Those are the plays that Ed Reed made, Troy Polamalu made.

[DerwinBosa]

I guess we should just trade everybody and stick with Staley for the next 30 years.