Official Charger Season Discussion - News - Roster Moves - Injuries

[Go Chargers go]

This is gonna sound weird, but for the record, I’m actually more on their side than it appears. And I really don’t harbor any dislike for the Spanos family all. How can I? I don’t know them. Moreover I actually quietly disagree with a lot of fan views about them. The plain and simple fact is that the Spanos’ priorities simply differ from Charger fans’ priorities. And honestly, there’s not a damn thing wrong with what they’re doing. It’s their business. Heck, everyone wants to win, and I guarantee they’re no different. But this is also likely a big chunk of their income, so they have to go about their business more pragmatically compared to some of the bigger fish in the NFL ocean. No one can honestly blame them for that, can they? The strangely ironic thing is, as far as being somewhat relatable to the fans, they’re actually kind of the mom n pop shop of the NFL, as funny as that sounds. And yet they’re so intensely hated. I actually want to see them succeed. BUT, I also see that they’re fighting an uphill battle. This team hasn’t changed its character over so many years. When the on-field results stay remarkably, eh, “consistent” for however many years now, and in such very specific ways, then it becomes a pretty good bet who is to “blame”. I quote the word blame, because they may not actually be blaming anyone as far as their aims are concerned. I mean, they’ve undoubtedly increased their net worth considerably since moving to LA. If they do sell, they stand to make a fairly tidy sum, despite supposedly being highly leveraged (rumored). All I’m pointing out, is that they really don’t seem to know how to put a winning product on the field. And if that isn’t their utmost priority, the only thing we can do as fans is to stop supporting the product. There’s really no point in “fan loyalty” when you truly think critically about it all. We don’t take the field. The only thing fans have in common with the team is maybe a connection to the city name. And let’s be plainly honest, these billionaires and millionaires could give a rats ass about the fans, outside of their money and adoration. So why shouldn’t fans treat it as a product, from the point of view of their invested time? Don’t support a mediocre product. It really is the only way “we” can have any impact at all.

P.s. yikes I’m definitely gonna be a pariah now

At the end of the day, the coaching matters more than anything. The owners have shown they don’t believe coaching comes before everything. Somehow they have not seen Chiefs or Patriots in last decade.
I would think after Marty loss in P.O. to NE they would have thought we need to find the next best head coach. They have given up and are milking it as much as possible

just my humble view.

[NOrvMeNow]

This is gonna sound weird, but for the record, I’m actually more on their side than it appears. And I really don’t harbor any dislike for the Spanos family all. How can I? I don’t know them. Moreover I actually quietly disagree with a lot of fan views about them. The plain and simple fact is that the Spanos’ priorities simply differ from Charger fans’ priorities. And honestly, there’s not a damn thing wrong with what they’re doing. It’s their business. Heck, everyone wants to win, and I guarantee they’re no different. But this is also likely a big chunk of their income, so they have to go about their business more pragmatically compared to some of the bigger fish in the NFL ocean. No one can honestly blame them for that, can they? The strangely ironic thing is, as far as being somewhat relatable to the fans, they’re actually kind of the mom n pop shop of the NFL, as funny as that sounds. And yet they’re so intensely hated. I actually want to see them succeed. BUT, I also see that they’re fighting an uphill battle. This team hasn’t changed its character over so many years. When the on-field results stay remarkably, eh, “consistent” for however many years now, and in such very specific ways, then it becomes a pretty good bet who is to “blame”. I quote the word blame, because they may not actually be blaming anyone as far as their aims are concerned. I mean, they’ve undoubtedly increased their net worth considerably since moving to LA. If they do sell, they stand to make a fairly tidy sum, despite supposedly being highly leveraged (rumored). All I’m pointing out, is that they really don’t seem to know how to put a winning product on the field. And if that isn’t their utmost priority, the only thing we can do as fans is to stop supporting the product. There’s really no point in “fan loyalty” when you truly think critically about it all. We don’t take the field. The only thing fans have in common with the team is maybe a connection to the city name. And let’s be plainly honest, these billionaires and millionaires could give a rats ass about the fans, outside of their money and adoration. So why shouldn’t fans treat it as a product, from the point of view of their invested time? Don’t support a mediocre product. It really is the only way “we” can have any impact at all.

P.s. yikes I’m definitely gonna be a pariah now

Most mom & pop businesses, and there aren't many around, have some commitment to the communities that they serve.
And there is some creedance to the notion that the Spanos negotiated in bad faith with San Diego politicians.

That they are your ordinary sleezeball money first operators (which is your contention): all right, not a reason to grant them clemency in public opinion;
That they need to squeeze more money out of football operations because of their relative poverty (again, your contention): not a reason to sympathize with their plight.
They would be making big bucks even if their spending was more towards the norm ... but then, they never have enough.

Like most owners, in no way have the Spanos contributed to the success of the NFL. They are mostly well positioned parasites, and nothing more.
I think we agree on that Duck of Death.

Boycott football because it's just a corporate entity with no ties to communities?
I know my interest is no where close to what it was many years ago.

College football is of zero interest to me: a completely money driven entity with no traditions.
Does anyone remember the Oklahoma-Nebraska thanksgiving day games?
And I wasn't a fan of either team.

[Lefty2SLO]

Most mom & pop businesses, and there aren't many around, have some commitment to the communities that they serve.
And there is some creedance to the notion that the Spanos negotiated in bad faith with San Diego politicians.

That they are your ordinary sleezeball money first operators (which is your contention): all right, not a reason to grant them clemency in public opinion;
That they need to squeeze more money out of football operations because of their relative poverty (again, your contention): not a reason to sympathize with their plight.
They would be making big bucks even if their spending was more towards the norm ... but then, they never have enough.

Like most owners, in no way have the Spanos contributed to the success of the NFL. They are mostly well positioned parasites, and nothing more.
I think we agree on that Duck of Death.

Boycott football because it's just a corporate entity with no ties to communities?
I know my interest is no where close to what it was many years ago.

College football is of zero interest to me: a completely money driven entity with no traditions.
Does anyone remember the Oklahoma-Nebraska thanksgiving day games?
And I wasn't a fan of either team.

It's definitely more difficult to be a truly committed fan (of any sport - except maybe hockey) these days, no doubt . . . . . . . .

[dmac_bolt]

It's definitely more difficult to be a truly committed fan (of any sport - except maybe hockey) these days, no doubt . . . . . . . .

I think people are slowly realizing that the NFL is an entertainment business. It’s a different era of honesty and many are resentful that the imagined (although untrue) team relationship facade is not being kept up to justify their individual inordinate affection for the NFL. You guys are gonna have to sack up and admit to your families and friends that you love the NFL more than most simply because you do, there is no larger greater reason other than its your personal entertainment preference. There is no personal relationship or tie that binds you to the Chargers or any team. You just really like Chargers football.

because if you didn’t, you wouldn’t be here every day bitching and moaning and cheering and rejoicing and wondering and recommending and all of the many varied things we all do here. Its 6 years (or 7?) since the Chargers moved from San Diego to a shitty soccer stadium in Carson.

I think Dean & Co negotiated honestly and earnestly the first time for a combo Valley Stadium/Development project and they put up a small portion of cash. Looking at that lower-tier D1 stadium there now, it’s sad that San Diego has such limited vision and aspiration. City officials double-dealer them and blocked the deal. I think the last time they believed there was no chance to get a deal with the city and they constructed it more as a PR vehicle than a legitimate attempt to get a stadium. I think they were right that they were not getting a stadium in San Diego so I don’t blame what or how they did it. That reality made me sad as I generally dislike a lot of govt spending that I personally find valueless and I much preferred this valueless allocation of public funds. Obviously the city did not. Chargers should have made it a county initiative if they wanted to succeed, but I don’t know they would have there either.

Does that make them evil, bad, good, or what? Meh - it was business, and the business of NFL is that poor owners either get public-funded infrastructure or they move. Very rich owners sometimes decide to build vanity projects or can afford the long-term investment recovery cycle but poor owners cannot survive that long cycle nor fund those projects. Its just fact, its like complaining about the weather.

[Boltnut]

I think Dean & Co negotiated honestly and earnestly the first time for a combo Valley Stadium/Development project and they put up a small portion of cash. Looking at that lower-tier D1 stadium there now, it’s sad that San Diego has such limited vision and aspiration. City officials double-dealer them and blocked the deal. I think the last time they believed there was no chance to get a deal with the city and they constructed it more as a PR vehicle than a legitimate attempt to get a stadium. I think they were right that they were not getting a stadium in San Diego so I don’t blame what or how they did it. That reality made me sad as I generally dislike a lot of govt spending that I personally find valueless and I much preferred this valueless allocation of public funds. Obviously the city did not. Chargers should have made it a county initiative if they wanted to succeed, but I don’t know they would have there either.

City officials realized that the people of San Diego weren't going to pony-up more money for the Spanii. The Spanii never wanted the MV site. They wanted downtown and the valuable revenue that would come with it. Developers had a different vision. That downtown property is sprouting billion dollar high rises as we speak. The hoteliers are not straddled with the taxes that would have come with a new stadium. It would have been a financially ridiculous thing to give that revenue away.

And while you see the Mission Valley site as merely a lower-tier D1 stadium, the city sees it as a way to grow SDSU and generate even more revenue. That site isn't even close to finished. It will have dormitories, classrooms, retail space, and research facilities. The revenues that will be generated there will be 20-fold what the Chargers would generate.

In the end, the Spanii wanted revenue streams that come from a new facility and the surrounding retail opportunities. The Spanii didn't get that @So-fi. Kroenke gets all of that. The only thing they really get is corporate money from luxury box sales. I have no idea what they generate from that... only that the sale/re-sale of those suites is much less than what was expected (looking at articles from 2017 and re-sale sites). Once you consider the expense of the re-location fee and expense of new training facilities, I wonder how much more/less the Spanii are generating in LA. Many will point to the increasing value of the team as some sort of indicator. But EVERY team's value has grown in that same time. The only teams that have relative worth increases are the Raiders and Rams. Of course those increases are directly tied to their control/ownership of the new facilities.

I think the owners/NFL grossly mis-calculated the Chargers move to LA. In the process, they alienated about half of the San Diego fanbase. Have they replaced them with "new" fans in the LA area...? My TV screen tells me, "No". What a black-eye for the NFL... and a boon for LA transplants supporting other teams.

[Bolt4Knob]

City officials realized that the people of San Diego weren't going to pony-up more money for the Spanii. The Spanii never wanted the MV site. They wanted downtown and the valuable revenue that would come with it. Developers had a different vision. That downtown property is sprouting billion dollar high rises as we speak. The hoteliers are not straddled with the taxes that would have come with a new stadium. It would have been a financially ridiculous thing to give that revenue away.

And while you see the Mission Valley site as merely a lower-tier D1 stadium, the city sees it as a way to grow SDSU and generate even more revenue. That site isn't even close to finished. It will have dormitories, classrooms, retail space, and research facilities. The revenues that will be generated there will be 20-fold what the Chargers would generate.

In the end, the Spanii wanted revenue streams that come from a new facility and the surrounding retail opportunities. The Spanii didn't get that @So-fi. Kroenke gets all of that. The only thing they really get is corporate money from luxury box sales. I have no idea what they generate from that... only that the sale/re-sale of those suites is much less than what was expected (looking at articles from 2017 and re-sale sites). Once you consider the expense of the re-location fee and expense of new training facilities, I wonder how much more/less the Spanii are generating in LA. Many will point to the increasing value of the team as some sort of indicator. But EVERY team's value has grown in that same time. The only teams that have relative worth increases are the Raiders and Rams. Of course those increases are directly tied to their control/ownership of the new facilities.

I think the owners/NFL grossly mis-calculated the Chargers move to LA. In the process, they alienated about half of the San Diego fanbase. Have they replaced them with "new" fans in the LA area...? My TV screen tells me, "No". What a black-eye for the NFL... and a boon for LA transplants supporting other teams.

Truth. Quoted for. NFL not working "harder" with Dean was a mistake. he needed the help. He is not very bright or a good businessman

[jamrock]

dmac_bolt for me you couldn’t be more wrong when you say there’s nothing personal that binds you to the team. For those of us who grew up on Chargers football with family members who are no longer around it is personal. Maybe what you’re saying has validity for carpetbaggers or bandwagoners (although it would be odd to pick this franchise) but that’s probably a small number. There’s a tradition to it and memories around it.

mid it was just a personal entertainment choice I would guess most would choose another team to be entertained by. Maybe one with more success and joy around it. I don’t pay attention to music or tv shows that let me down every year. That’s fo sho.

[Boltjolt]

City officials realized that the people of San Diego weren't going to pony-up more money for the Spanii. The Spanii never wanted the MV site. They wanted downtown and the valuable revenue that would come with it. Developers had a different vision. That downtown property is sprouting billion dollar high rises as we speak. The hoteliers are not straddled with the taxes that would have come with a new stadium. It would have been a financially ridiculous thing to give that revenue away.

And while you see the Mission Valley site as merely a lower-tier D1 stadium, the city sees it as a way to grow SDSU and generate even more revenue. That site isn't even close to finished. It will have dormitories, classrooms, retail space, and research facilities. The revenues that will be generated there will be 20-fold what the Chargers would generate.

In the end, the Spanii wanted revenue streams that come from a new facility and the surrounding retail opportunities. The Spanii didn't get that @So-fi. Kroenke gets all of that. The only thing they really get is corporate money from luxury box sales. I have no idea what they generate from that... only that the sale/re-sale of those suites is much less than what was expected (looking at articles from 2017 and re-sale sites). Once you consider the expense of the re-location fee and expense of new training facilities, I wonder how much more/less the Spanii are generating in LA. Many will point to the increasing value of the team as some sort of indicator. But EVERY team's value has grown in that same time. The only teams that have relative worth increases are the Raiders and Rams. Of course those increases are directly tied to their control/ownership of the new facilities.

I think the owners/NFL grossly mis-calculated the Chargers move to LA. In the process, they alienated about half of the San Diego fanbase. Have they replaced them with "new" fans in the LA area...? My TV screen tells me, "No". What a black-eye for the NFL... and a boon for LA transplants supporting other teams.

LOL.....SDSU isnt going to bring the city much revenue. They still suck for one thing. Its never going to be a college that attracts high profile football players. Also the Padres wouldnt be there if the City had their way. It took years for it to finally be approved to build their stadium.
The City of SD is run by a bunch or morons.

By turning away the Chargers the city also turned away super bowls as the NFL would love to have SBs there with a new stadium. No revenue in that? It will take SDSU years to equal the revenue that just 1 SB would bring.

I get CA is a tax hell to be in but people wanting to come to SD would pay the hotel tax, It sure didnt stop them from coming to Las Vegas when the hotel tax helped pay for the Raiders stadium.

The Hotels are still charging the tax and people are still coming. LV isnt near what it used to be as far as being cheap. I dont know why people would want to come here at all anymore as its expensive as F now.

[Boltjolt]

Truth. Quoted for. NFL not working "harder" with Dean was a mistake. he needed the help. He is not very bright or a good businessman

Thats for sure. Neither are his Sons.

[dmac_bolt]

Truth. Quoted for. NFL not working "harder" with Dean was a mistake. he needed the help. He is not very bright or a good businessman

NFL, like all leagues, have a conflicting dynamic that your partners are also your opponents. Takes very tall men to see the overall forest for their own trees. Dean was not, is not, and never will be the type of guy that can build the relationships needed to overcome this internal tension.

We have who we have. Spani are the owners. It is. I don’t dwell on is, its wasted energy.

[Boltnut]

Truth. Quoted for. NFL not working "harder" with Dean was a mistake. he needed the help. He is not very bright or a good businessman

Dean has never had to be very good at business... he was born into wealth and rode the NFL gravy-train most of his life. His sons are no better. They've spent most of their life mingling in the country club circles and going to private schools. They don't understand the common football fan... and rely upon financial advisors and PR organizations (who don't understand the common football fan either) to make their decisions for them (see Fabiani).

When I played HS football (small rural HS) we played mostly private schools (John's alma mater being one of them). The way they perceived us was comical... and illustrated a disconnect that I never forgot. I'm not surprised with their decision-making... and let's not forget that the other football owners jumped on board with the Spanii. The Spanii were not the only ones to mis-calculate.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

dmac_bolt for me you couldn’t be more wrong when you say there’s nothing personal that binds you to the team. For those of us who grew up on Chargers football with family members who are no longer around it is personal. Maybe what you’re saying has validity for carpetbaggers or bandwagoners (although it would be odd to pick this franchise) but that’s probably a small number. There’s a tradition to it and memories around it.

The NFL has its propaganda. The whole I do it for the team thing is a facade.

Dean has never had to be very good at business... he was born into wealth and rode the NFL gravy-train most of his life. His sons are no better. They've spent most of their life mingling in the country club circles and going to private schools. They don't understand the common football fan... and rely upon financial advisors and PR organizations (who don't understand the common football fan either) to make their decisions for them (see Fabiani).

Freemasons control society from behind the scenes. This might be unsettling to people. What you say about Dean and his sons isn't uncommon and is something that goes on in the world when it comes to businesses and government. The NFL is controlled by the mafia from behind closed doors.