Official Charger Season Discussion - News - Roster Moves - Injuries

[Boltnut]

Putting a few words in my mouth that I never said

I am not opposed to trading Mack or Williams or Bosa. Combined with the fact that again, the Chargers have to be under the cap to trade them -- I just think 1) the market won't be that robust and 2) except for Mack, the value won't be that much. You can wish for a 4th round but I think it will be closer to a 6th or 7th for Mike Williams or Joey Bosa

Second, you do realize that I would expect the new GM to sign players to fill out the roster to 53 players. An earlier post I even put examples of players to sign but more impotantly how one could spend the money

I would gladly be wrong about the trade value for Williams or Bosa --its a good theory until other teams see the reality and call the Chargers bluff and say "release them and we won't have to deal with getting 22m under the cap to trade for BOsa or Williams and we will take our chances on the open market"

Granted, there is no way to tell what Mack, Bosa, or Williams can fetch via trade. Considering Mack and Allen's production, I assume you can get a 3rd (4th at worse) for Mack. I'd rather keep Keenan. Bosa is productive... when he's healthy. IMO, it's a little sketchy going into 2024 with both Mack and Bosa gone. You would almost be forced to pick a pass rusher with your 1st round pick... which I'm not completely against.

Let's say the market is soft for Bosa... why not just re-structure? Same with Mike Williams.
Chargers can get under the cap by March 13th if they cut Linsley and Kendricks ($15.4m). Re-structuring Bosa and Derwin could save $18m (OTC).
Extending both Mike and Keenan could save $32m (OTC)... depending how long the extensions are.
That would give us enough space to sign the ERFA's and build our roster to 53 (without touching Mack's contract pre-March 13th.

The big question being... do you believe in keeping Keenan, Mike, and Joey 2 more years... and keeping Derwin 3 more years...?
If you don't believe in Mike's recovery (and can't get trade value)... you can always cut Mike straight out (and save even more).
I'm sure the new HC/GM will sit down with Ed McGuire and have a long talk.

[Bolt4Knob]

Granted, there is no way to tell what Mack, Bosa, or Williams can fetch via trade. Considering Mack and Allen's production, I assume you can get a 3rd (4th at worse) for Mack. I'd rather keep Keenan. Bosa is productive... when he's healthy. IMO, it's a little sketchy going into 2024 with both Mack and Bosa gone. You would almost be forced to pick a pass rusher with your 1st round pick... which I'm not completely against.

Let's say the market is soft for Bosa... why not just re-structure? Same with Mike Williams.
Chargers can get under the cap by March 13th if they cut Linsley and Kendricks ($15.4m). Re-structuring Bosa and Derwin could save $18m (OTC).
Extending both Mike and Keenan could save $32m (OTC)... depending how long the extensions are.
That would give us enough space to sign the ERFA's and build our roster to 53 (without touching Mack's contract pre-March 13th.

The big question being... do you believe in keeping Keenan, Mike, and Joey 2 more years... and keeping Derwin 3 more years...?
If you don't believe in Mike's recovery (and can't get trade value)... you can always cut Mike straight out (and save even more).
I'm sure the new HC/GM will sit down with Ed McGuire and have a long talk.

Bosa - I want him gone no matter what. He is overpaid, overrated and most importantly, I don't think he is the right guy for the locker room and culture. Done with him

Williams - maybe if he takes a huge pay cut but again, he doesn't get open, he gets hurt, catches the 50/50 but coming off an injury - moving on

Mack and Allen - I bring them back if the contracts are structured as basically one year deals with nominal potential for dead cap. So basically Larry Fitzgerald type contracts that are managed year to year. If either truly wants a longer term deal at this time - moving on

Your moves for Bosa, Derwin, Mike and Keenan is pushing $50m of cap space to the future. You said yourself Bosa is not worth $22m so why are you paying him $22m. The Chargers are going to need cap space to pay for actual players and draft picks - so why are you wasting 50m of your future. Save it for when you are truly a contender

And lastly - the Chargers already tried this with pushing a bunch of cap for these four players - who as a group have won EXACTLY how many playoff games - and you want to do it again.

Personally I am about building a team for 2025-2028 and if taking a step back this year, leveling the cap, ripping off the band-aid - signa bunch of guys on prove it deals, better coaching, and than maybe next year, evaluate what you need and dip into free agency than

I look at these four players as free agents and would, as a 5-12 team - pay a Keenan Allen 23m for one year or Khalil Mack - probably not. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay Bosa $22m or Mike Williams $20m

[Boltnut]

Do teams have to have a certain number of players on the roster by March 13th... or just be under the cap?

[Go Chargers go]

Bosa - I want him gone no matter what. He is overpaid, overrated and most importantly, I don't think he is the right guy for the locker room and culture. Done with him

Williams - maybe if he takes a huge pay cut but again, he doesn't get open, he gets hurt, catches the 50/50 but coming off an injury - moving on

Mack and Allen - I bring them back if the contracts are structured as basically one year deals with nominal potential for dead cap. So basically Larry Fitzgerald type contracts that are managed year to year. If either truly wants a longer term deal at this time - moving on

Your moves for Bosa, Derwin, Mike and Keenan is pushing $50m of cap space to the future. You said yourself Bosa is not worth $22m so why are you paying him $22m. The Chargers are going to need cap space to pay for actual players and draft picks - so why are you wasting 50m of your future. Save it for when you are truly a contender

And lastly - the Chargers already tried this with pushing a bunch of cap for these four players - who as a group have won EXACTLY how many playoff games - and you want to do it again.

Personally I am about building a team for 2025-2028 and if taking a step back this year, leveling the cap, ripping off the band-aid - signa bunch of guys on prove it deals, better coaching, and than maybe next year, evaluate what you need and dip into free agency than

I look at these four players as free agents and would, as a 5-12 team - pay a Keenan Allen 23m for one year or Khalil Mack - probably not. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay Bosa $22m or Mike Williams $20m

I like the Idea of pulling of the Bandaid this year because it will build a young team around JH and probably put us in another good draft position next year. But who do you have replacing EKELERs Production? We really have 5 good starting Players to replace in next two years.

but owner and fans want to see improvements from here.

[Bolt4Knob]

I like the Idea of pulling of the Bandaid this year because it will build a young team around JH and probably put us in another good draft position next year. But who do you have replacing EKELERs Production? We really have 5 good starting Players to replace in next two years.

but owner and fans want to see improvements from here.

A good GM and HC can find a good productive RB. Fix the OLine and find a RB with a bit more pop and they can replace Ekeler

[blueman]

I don’t think any HC/GM/owner wants to write off a year. Not when there are avenues open to be competitive. Keep Mack, maybe Allen, move on from there with draft picks and whatever FAs you can afford. It’s the type of strategy every team follows, no matter what circumstances there’re in.

We won’t get everything we want in one offseason anyway, keep the best D player we have, expensive sure but they cost that much for a reason. Herbert on O and Mack on D, totally worth the $$$ and we can fight. Bring on the newbies both coaches and players!

[richpjr]

I like the Idea of pulling of the Bandaid this year because it will build a young team around JH and probably put us in another good draft position next year. But who do you have replacing EKELERs Production? We really have 5 good starting Players to replace in next two years.

but owner and fans want to see improvements from here.

Ekeler had no production this year, but obviously you mean his production from years past. Even then, he was a fantastic 3rd down/change of pace back, but even in his prime he wasn't the inside runner we need.

[Bolt4Knob]

Ekeler had no production this year, but obviously you mean his production from years past. Even then, he was a fantastic 3rd down/change of pace back, but even in his prime he wasn't the inside runner we need.

Telesco was poor at creating a cohesive OLine (and probably part coaching) as well as the Running game

I doubt Harbaugh (maybe I am being presumptive) and the new GM will have that problem. NFL teams find rotational RBs all the time. Except Tommy and John Boy

[northerner]

I don’t think any HC/GM/owner wants to write off a year. Not when there are avenues open to be competitive. Keep Mack, maybe Allen, move on from there with draft picks and whatever FAs you can afford. It’s the type of strategy every team follows, no matter what circumstances there’re in.

We won’t get everything we want in one offseason anyway, keep the best D player we have, expensive sure but they cost that much for a reason. Herbert on O and Mack on D, totally worth the $$$ and we can fight. Bring on the newbies both coaches and players!

I don't want to write off a year either, not with Herbert in his prime. I agree that Mack and Allen are the guys to try to work with. agree with Bolt4Knob that bosa and MW are cap casualties. I think the cap is going to start working out once these names come off: bosa, MW, SJD, Corey L., and hendricks (sp?). Corey is a medical issue, not a performance issue.

plus, there is a huge pay difference between "superstar money" and "decent starter money." our big 4 cap guys are all making superstar money - that can get sorted out with pay cuts and plain old cuts. i think we will have plenty of "decent starter money" for the roster gaps once the dust settles.

[jox g]

A good GM and HC can find a good productive RB. Fix the OLine and find a RB with a bit more pop and they can replace Ekeler

Really love FRANK GORE JR for us in the 5th rd. (Projected 5-6.) JH coached his dad w/ SF!!!

[Boltnut]

Bosa - I want him gone no matter what. He is overpaid, overrated and most importantly, I don't think he is the right guy for the locker room and culture. Done with him

Williams - maybe if he takes a huge pay cut but again, he doesn't get open, he gets hurt, catches the 50/50 but coming off an injury - moving on

Mack and Allen - I bring them back if the contracts are structured as basically one year deals with nominal potential for dead cap. So basically Larry Fitzgerald type contracts that are managed year to year. If either truly wants a longer term deal at this time - moving on

Your moves for Bosa, Derwin, Mike and Keenan is pushing $50m of cap space to the future. You said yourself Bosa is not worth $22m so why are you paying him $22m. The Chargers are going to need cap space to pay for actual players and draft picks - so why are you wasting 50m of your future. Save it for when you are truly a contender

And lastly - the Chargers already tried this with pushing a bunch of cap for these four players - who as a group have won EXACTLY how many playoff games - and you want to do it again.

Personally I am about building a team for 2025-2028 and if taking a step back this year, leveling the cap, ripping off the band-aid - signa bunch of guys on prove it deals, better coaching, and than maybe next year, evaluate what you need and dip into free agency than

I look at these four players as free agents and would, as a 5-12 team - pay a Keenan Allen 23m for one year or Khalil Mack - probably not. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay Bosa $22m or Mike Williams $20m

Bosa - The problem has been playing 16 (now 17) games a year. His pressure rate (when healthy) is elite. I leave all emotional feelings about a player out of evaluating a player. If I can save $10.4 million on my 2024 cap (without extending the contract)... per OTC, I'd do it. If Jim Harbaugh is the next HC, you know he likes defense. When he took the 49er job... he started with a stacked defense. Can Harbaugh get more out of Bosa than Staley did...?

Williams - I really couldn't care less what happens with Mike. I wasn't excited about the pick in the first place. Release him and save $20 million against the 2024 cap.

Allen - I really love Keenan. It's hard for me to imagine Herbie without Keenan. I think Keenan has at least 2 more good years left. I think it would be smart to extend his contract out to 2026. The last year of the contract could be where you put some of that restructure (from previous contract) and bonus signing. I think Keenan wants to be here. $17-18 million per year...? Reduce his 2024 cap hit by $7m...?

Mack's contract is the hardest to extend (without expecting him to take a fairly big pay-cut). Coming off of a career year... he would probably like to have one last big payday. If you can figure out other contracts (and get under the cap by March 13) then you can trade Mack and create $23m more 2024 cap space. Trading Mack could probably bring a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Pre-March 13 moves:

Cut Linsley and Kendricks ($15.4m savings)
Cut Mike Williams ($20m savings)
Restructure Bosa and Derwin ($18m savings)

At this point, you are $7.7m under the cap (per OTC) by March 13th. KA and Mack are still under contract. You have 47 players under contract. I'm not sure how many players are required on the 53-man roster @March13th... but if it's all 53, you have 5 ERFA's you can tender and still be under the cap.
Trading Mack will give you $23m more space... now you have $30.7m space to start the new year... and you haven't even touched Keenan's contract.

[Bolt4Knob]

Bosa - The problem has been playing 16 (now 17) games a year. His pressure rate (when healthy) is elite. I leave all emotional feelings about a player out of evaluating a player. If I can save $10.4 million on my 2024 cap (without extending the contract)... per OTC, I'd do it. If Jim Harbaugh is the next HC, you know he likes defense. When he took the 49er job... he started with a stacked defense. Can Harbaugh get more out of Bosa than Staley did...?

Williams - I really couldn't care less what happens with Mike. I wasn't excited about the pick in the first place. Release him and save $20 million against the 2024 cap.

Allen - I really love Keenan. It's hard for me to imagine Herbie without Keenan. I think Keenan has at least 2 more good years left. I think it would be smart to extend his contract out to 2026. The last year of the contract could be where you put some of that restructure (from previous contract) and bonus signing. I think Keenan wants to be here. $17-18 million per year...? Reduce his 2024 cap hit by $7m...?

Mack's contract is the hardest to extend (without expecting him to take a fairly big pay-cut). Coming off of a career year... he would probably like to have one last big payday. If you can figure out other contracts (and get under the cap by March 13) then you can trade Mack and create $23m more 2024 cap space. Trading Mack could probably bring a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Pre-March 13 moves:

Cut Linsley and Kendricks ($15.4m savings)
Cut Mike Williams ($20m savings)
Restructure Bosa and Derwin ($18m savings)

At this point, you are $7.7m under the cap (per OTC) by March 13th. KA and Mack are still under contract. You have 47 players under contract. I'm not sure how many players are required on the 53-man roster @March13th... but if it's all 53, you have 5 ERFA's you can tender and still be under the cap.
Trading Mack will give you $23m more space... now you have $30.7m space to start the new year... and you haven't even touched Keenan's contract.

Just release Bosa and I am good with what you are doing -- you get under the cap on March 15 and can assess the trade potential and contract demands of Allen and Mack. Joey Bosa's health is why you move on from him and not push more cap - just release him. And if Bosa isn't healthy - two years now - doesn't matter who the coach is. Has to be on the field

those numbers for Allen - right in line with where I think he should be