Former OC Kellen Moore - Discussion

[Lefty2SLO]

Agreed on 21, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it was inexcusable that 22's offensive issues were allowed to continue all year without effective correction. If Lombo didn't want to adjust that's fine, then it's up to the head coach - the team leader, to solve the problem. Staley did not, and allowed or enabled it to continue . . . . that's on him. He was either unwilling to REQUIRE / FORCE scheme changes, or personal changes, or he simply wasn't football smart enough to figure out how to fix the issues. Any way you slice it it comes up looking bad for the guy in charge . . . . I hope he's learned something from all this.

I don't think it's irrational to expect the head coach to be able to fix (or at least mitigate) issues with his team. Isn't that what they get paid millions of dollars per year to do???

[Xenos]

Agreed on 21, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it was inexcusable that 22's offensive issues were allowed to continue all year without effective correction. If Lombo didn't want to adjust that's fine, then it's up to the head coach - the team leader, to solve the problem. Staley did not, and allowed or enabled it to continue . . . . that's on him. He was either unwilling to REQUIRE / FORCE scheme changes, or personal changes, or he simply wasn't football smart enough to figure out how to fix the issues. Any way you slice it it comes up looking bad for the guy in charge . . . . I hope he's learned something from all this.

I’m sure they did try to adjust. But as I mentioned in another post, you’re not going to be able to force wholesale change during the season. It’s why major changes happen during the offseason. Look at what happened with Belichick and the Patriots OC position this past season, which I would argue was worse than ours. Did the “greatest” HC in the NFL forget to REQUIRE/FORCE scheme change? Or was he simply not smart enough to figure out how to fix the issue?

[dmac_bolt]

If they are not on the same page, that is coaching. That's exactly why Lombo failed. The design better fit the players and not the other way around. Our O line guys tend to
larger slower guys. A power blocking scheme incorporating more FB blocking may be a better fit for our personnel. Whatever we do the running game needs improvement.
We don't have to be a top 5 running team. But we'd do well to have more 3rd and 2, instead of 3rd and 7.

I don’t disagree with what you wrote but you kinda completely glossed over my point. coaching effectiveness can be greatly affected by the complexity he’s been told to get players. Maybe the reason our OL coach(es) couldnt teach it is because it’s just not teachable / learnable. Maybe it IS the design that prevents them from consistently executing it. If too many pieces are simultaneously told to all slide, slant, zone read, pull, shift etc at once and then engage based on some modeled array of defenders but the defenders are rapidly dynamic and not where the slanting pulling shifting etc blockers go, then it maybe its too easy for defenders that also have tape and study to know where this shifting rolling mess of an OL blocking scheme is going and then overload a weak point to counterattack this scheme and blow it all up. I just see too many plays where 2 or 3 OL are literally hands on hip adjacent to the implosion.

I know lots of teams run a zone based scheme, i don’t know the subtleties of Lombo’s design to say he’s veered off from tried and true and created a shitstorm or its a sound reliable approach and we uniquely have guys not smart enough to execute. Given the intelligence of many of our OL players - we know Slater, Linsley, Zion are literally very smart, and nothing indicates Feiler or Pipkins are not smart enough to absorb blocking assignments, , i am betting it’s not that our players are not smart enough. It’s that the too-clever schemes are easily diagnosed and defeated by DCs. Thats also why I am not able to say the OL Coach did a bad job teaching them. I suspect its design itself but I am no smarter than the prior times i posted it and I welcome real X & O analyses by smart guys here.

Otherwise it’s just you and me blabbering “its design”, “its coaching”, “its players” back and forth and getting nowhere. I don’t fucking know.

[gzubeck]

Winning to save his job?????

Isn't this the case for everyone?

[dmac_bolt]

We were 13th best scoring offense in '22, with Herbert. With a backup starting? Hopefully we see some change in depth.
Mainly we need improved run production (30th) , red zone and scoring with Herbert.

Hopefully all; the QB injuries we’ve all be watching lately rattles a switch to turn on the lightbulb in the FO/Staff’s attic that the backup QB needs to be able to carry the team. They have to know they have sub-par backup QBs, they aren’t idiots.

[dmac_bolt]

Can’t help but imagine Dallas running game married to Herbert at QB…just wow.

Thats all I’ve thought about since the announcement. This could prioritize that elite feature back option in the draft too.

[gzubeck]

So Staley prioritized his friendship with Lombardi over maximizing the performance of his generationally talented QB? And allowed Lombardi to reduce the teams chances of winning? If this is truly the case Staley should be in the unemployment line right behind Lombo.

I have a lot of frustration with Staley for letting Lombardi run the offense (and JH) into the ground like he did. You're the Head Coach, the undisputed leader - you need to be able to make the hard decisions, like; correcting the offense (or removing the OC if he refuses), disciplining his players when they f*** up (Bosa / Helmet toss).

Do your job - do what's necessary for the betterment of the team, or GTFO.

At this point who knows what was flying around in his head? My guess is that he wanted his friend to succeed and it became obvious that he couldn't and the alternative was what? Dial up a new OC with only 4 games left in the season? We could all see this coming down the pipe like a train wreck in slomo but little we could do for this past season on such short notice.

[Riverwalk]

I don't think it's irrational to expect the head coach to be able to fix (or at least mitigate) issues with his team. Isn't that what they get paid millions of dollars per year to do???

The offense was often decent to start the games. It was the second half, particularly 3rd quarters where the offense stunk to high heaven.

This tells me that during the week and perhaps with input from Staley, Lombardi was able to shape a good game plan.

However, you have a HC who not only has to manage the game in the moment but at half time spend time making adjustments to the defense which he is clearly more wedded to and micromanages.

This left Lombardi by himself to make adjustments for the second half which in hindsight was clearly a talent he doesn’t have and why he was sent packing.

[Riverwalk]

Thats all I’ve thought about since the announcement. This could prioritize that elite feature back option in the draft too.

And your elite back gets injured in training camp and your back at square one.

Look, the Chargers have tried and failed wasting first round picks on RB’s twice since LT.

Meanwhile their OL’s sucked and still can’t open lanes for our RB’s.

Chargers should continue to focus on building an OL that can dominate the LOS and open running lanes for ALL the RB’s.

Same for DL. Dominate the LOS. I’m so tired of watching virtually every opponent toss our OL and DL’s around for over a decade.

Come on Telesco. Wise up!

[gzubeck]

I don’t disagree with what you wrote but you kinda completely glossed over my point. coaching effectiveness can be greatly affected by the complexity he’s been told to get players. Maybe the reason our OL coach(es) couldnt teach it is because it’s just not teachable / learnable. Maybe it IS the design that prevents them from consistently executing it. If too many pieces are simultaneously told to all slide, slant, zone read, pull, shift etc at once and then engage based on some modeled array of defenders but the defenders are rapidly dynamic and not where the slanting pulling shifting etc blockers go, then it maybe its too easy for defenders that also have tape and study to know where this shifting rolling mess of an OL blocking scheme is going and then overload a weak point to counterattack this scheme and blow it all up. I just see too many plays where 2 or 3 OL are literally hands on hip adjacent to the implosion.

I know lots of teams run a zone based scheme, i don’t know the subtleties of Lombo’s design to say he’s veered off from tried and true and created a shitstorm or its a sound reliable approach and we uniquely have guys not smart enough to execute. Given the intelligence of many of our OL players - we know Slater, Linsley, Zion are literally very smart, and nothing indicates Feiler or Pipkins are not smart enough to absorb blocking assignments, , i am betting it’s not that our players are not smart enough. It’s that the too-clever schemes are easily diagnosed and defeated by DCs. Thats also why I am not able to say the OL Coach did a bad job teaching them. I suspect its design itself but I am no smarter than the prior times i posted it and I welcome real X & O analyses by smart guys here.

Otherwise it’s just you and me blabbering “its design”, “its coaching”, “its players” back and forth and getting nowhere. I don’t fucking know.

POTD...this pretty much sums up our season. At some point the finger has to be pointed at the person organizing and designing this stuff. Too simple and it gets blown up as easy to diagnose....too complicated to execute and it gets blown up by putting a wrench in the machine.

[gzubeck]

And your elite back gets injured in training camp and your back at square one.

Look, the Chargers have tried and failed wasting first round picks on RB’s twice since LT.

Meanwhile their OL’s sucked and still can’t open lanes for our RB’s.

Chargers should continue to focus on building an OL that can dominate the LOS and open running lanes for ALL the RB’s.

Most of our stalled drives are 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1. Just a good block for an average back keeps drives moving.

[Riverwalk]

Most of our stalled drives are 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1. Just a good block for an average back keeps drives moving.

Exactly. Instead, we too often see the opponent DL overwhelm our OL and there’s nowhere but an engulfing brick wall to run into.

I hope Kellen sits down with the OL and RB coaches and dissects everyone of these runs for no gains. It would be a good place to start before the draft and free agency.

Spiller, Kelley, and Ekeler should be good enough to support a robust ground attack. It’s the OL and schemes I have doubts about.