The Melvin Gordon Saga - Holdout Over

[Caslon]

Chargers sat out LT for pre-season games. Heh, this may all come down to the last week in August. Blink, someone.

[Steve]

I remember that Denver system and it was exceptional based on questionable blocking techniques. I'm not saying UDFa's can't turn out to be great but it's the exception. I do t like relying on the exception.

I don't know what you mean by questionable blocking techniques. It was one of the first pure zone running schemes. people were always getting upset at the backside cut blocks, but EVERY teams, past and present uses that technique to stop/slow backside pursuit. You simply cannot run the ball without using that technique.

If your argument is that they had a great OL and were able to run the ball with any RB because of superior blocking, that has merit. But that would also invalidate the need to have a 1st round RB, plus it would be just as true if we had Gordon as if we didn't have Gordon.

Again, I listed a bunch of UDFA who are fame caliber players. Plenty of teams find and develop RB. It is easier to do at RB than any other position except the kicker/punters. Plenty of teams find and developed undrafted players at RB. You are just plain wrong about it being an exception.

If your argument was that JJ, DN, and Ekeler were shitty players, you might have a valid argument. The one you are making is just plain weak. Almost every analytics type and most teams have come to the conclusion that early-round RB are dramatically overvalued. It was not that long ago, the NFL draft was having several RB taken in the 1st round every season, and now it is pretty rare.

MG is the best RB we have, but the margin he has over the other RB we have is pretty slim. Certainly not worth what he is asking for. It is not worth gutting the rest of our roster to maintain a player who underachieved early in his career and is now reasonably productive. NFL salaries are about expected production. He is at at age and on a rosters where he is going to be losing touches to other players on the roster if he stays, so why should we pay him dramatically more for less production?

[Steve]

I don't think anyone here wants to rely on those players, we'd rather have Gordon honor his contract and come to camp. But since he waited until after free agency and the draft to try and squeeze the Chargers for more money while still under contract, that is what we are stuck with.

I'm fine with it.

It's not like we are going out and finding two NEW UDFA and a rookie 7th round RB who have never played before. These are players who have been on our roster, are veterans and we have seen perform. Based on their play last year, they have proven that within our offensive system, with the other offensive personnel we have, they can be productive, so I am fine with moving on without Gordon. I would rather he get an extension to give him moderately more than he is making after his 5th year, but if he doesn't want what is actually a pretty good deal, screw him.

The Chargers are getting to the point where the roster is going to have to make tough decisions with the salary cap and let good players go. That is the nature of having a deep and talented roster. That means making tough, informed decisions. RB are just not a great place to put a lot of money vs the cap. I don't see why we should pay Gordon against the overvalued portion of the RB market when we have other players who we would like to keep in the next 2 years who will be forced to walk because we cannot pay their market value.

Gordon as a decent player who has been well paid because of his 1st round status. He is desperate to cash in on the overvalued 4 person top to the RB market before everyone gets smart and RB's get revalued to be more in line with a more realistic evaluation of their worth. Given his age and his past production, which are terrible reasons to pay a player, he doesn't deserve the raise anyway.

Gordon's age, lack of durability, and the number of younger players like Henry and Williams who will compete for touches are all going to eat away at his potential production. So does the fact that, regardless of what Gordon does, I think Ekeler, JJ, and DN need to get more touches too. All of those things are working against him.

NFL salaries are not about his past production, they are about his future expectation of production and in that sense he is replaceable. The Chargers are becoming a good team, so the days of being sentimental about solid but replaceable players is kinda over. We let hall of fame players like Jr, Rodney and LT go. Hell, we are doing it to Gates right now. Why should Gordon be any different.

[wu-dai clan]

I remember that Denver system and it was exceptional based on questionable blocking techniques. I'm not saying UDFa's can't turn out to be great but it's the exception. I do t like relying on the exception.

Alex Gibbs. Terrell Davis. Historically. Stud.
Mike Munchak. Phillip Lindsay. 2019. UDFA/PB.

We counter with
Pat Meyer. Justin Jackson.

FWIW I have touted JJ since his junior year (woodMock 2017 4.0 round 7 :biggrin.

This year Jalin Moore Appalachian State NYJ. wisdom of wu nugget.

Late round/UDFA RBs. It's a thing.

We must remember Natrone Means and our formula which led to our only SB appearance.

I feel ya jamrock.

It just looks so sucky, the prospects of Melvin Gordon being a no show...

[like54ninjas]

[OhioBolt]

I'm fine with it.

It's not like we are going out and finding two NEW UDFA and a rookie 7th round RB who have never played before. These are players who have been on our roster, are veterans and we have seen perform. Based on their play last year, they have proven that within our offensive system, with the other offensive personnel we have, they can be productive, so I am fine with moving on without Gordon. I would rather he get an extension to give him moderately more than he is making after his 5th year, but if he doesn't want what is actually a pretty good deal, screw him.

The Chargers are getting to the point where the roster is going to have to make tough decisions with the salary cap and let good players go. That is the nature of having a deep and talented roster. That means making tough, informed decisions. RB are just not a great place to put a lot of money vs the cap. I don't see why we should pay Gordon against the overvalued portion of the RB market when we have other players who we would like to keep in the next 2 years who will be forced to walk because we cannot pay their market value.

Gordon as a decent player who has been well paid because of his 1st round status. He is desperate to cash in on the overvalued 4 person top to the RB market before everyone gets smart and RB's get revalued to be more in line with a more realistic evaluation of their worth. Given his age and his past production, which are terrible reasons to pay a player, he doesn't deserve the raise anyway.

Gordon's age, lack of durability, and the number of younger players like Henry and Williams who will compete for touches are all going to eat away at his potential production. So does the fact that, regardless of what Gordon does, I think Ekeler, JJ, and DN need to get more touches too. All of those things are working against him.

NFL salaries are not about his past production, they are about his future expectation of production and in that sense he is replaceable. The Chargers are becoming a good team, so the days of being sentimental about solid but replaceable players is kinda over. We let hall of fame players like Jr, Rodney and LT go. Hell, we are doing it to Gates right now. Why should Gordon be any different.

At the time we let these guys go they weren't what they once were

JR was dominate with the Chargers but was let go at the right time he didn't have the production in Miami or New England, but he benefit from being in Belechick defensive scheme
Rodney went to New England and he didn't have production but benefit from being in Belechick defensive scheme
LT was defienitely on the downside, he caught lightning in a bottle his first season with New York Jets, by his second season he was done.
Gates was here last season, because after Hunter Henry season ending injury we were depleted of talent at tight end.

Gordon has talent, but as been stated the injury history and him not being dominate is not worthy of top $$$, Levon Bell, David Johnson, Todd Gurley were dominate when on the field. Melvin Gordon over his first 4 years has only rushed for over 100 yards 8 times.

Time to move on from Gordon, I feel like and Ajai or Carlos Hyde will work for us I think they can do what we need them to do with a committe of Eckler & Jackson

[jamrock]

I don't know what you mean by questionable blocking techniques. It was one of the first pure zone running schemes. people were always getting upset at the backside cut blocks, but EVERY teams, past and present uses that technique to stop/slow backside pursuit. You simply cannot run the ball without using that technique.

If your argument is that they had a great OL and were able to run the ball with any RB because of superior blocking, that has merit. But that would also invalidate the need to have a 1st round RB, plus it would be just as true if we had Gordon as if we didn't have Gordon.

Again, I listed a bunch of UDFA who are fame caliber players. Plenty of teams find and develop RB. It is easier to do at RB than any other position except the kicker/punters. Plenty of teams find and developed undrafted players at RB. You are just plain wrong about it being an exception.

If your argument was that JJ, DN, and Ekeler were shitty players, you might have a valid argument. The one you are making is just plain weak. Almost every analytics type and most teams have come to the conclusion that early-round RB are dramatically overvalued. It was not that long ago, the NFL draft was having several RB taken in the 1st round every season, and now it is pretty rare.

MG is the best RB we have, but the margin he has over the other RB we have is pretty slim. Certainly not worth what he is asking for. It is not worth gutting the rest of our roster to maintain a player who underachieved early in his career and is now reasonably productive. NFL salaries are about expected production. He is at at age and on a rosters where he is going to be losing touches to other players on the roster if he stays, so why should we pay him dramatically more for less production?

We'll see Steve. Maybe we have a Marion Butts in the group. Maybe. Those guys have been decent in spot duty filling in for Gordon. It's a different ball of wax when teams have film and are game planning for you.

[wu-dai clan]

Would jamrock be happy with Saquon Barkley ?

Don't think so...

[Blue Thunder]

I just noticed that the Packers shockingly released DL Mike Daniels this morning, resulting in a cap savings of 8.3M this season.

Just reading between the lines here, but I wonder if this is to make room for adding someone with a big contract, someone like Melvin Gordon. Something to think about, at least.

Probably not, but you never know...

[wu-dai clan]

I just noticed that the Packers shockingly released DL Mike Daniels this morning, resulting in a cap savings of 8.3M this season.

Just reading between the lines here, but I wonder if this is to make room for adding someone with a big contract, someone like Melvin Gordon. Something to think about, at least.

Probably not, but you never know...

Could be.
Good call.

[Boltjolt]

I just noticed that the Packers shockingly released DL Mike Daniels this morning, resulting in a cap savings of 8.3M this season.

Just reading between the lines here, but I wonder if this is to make room for adding someone with a big contract, someone like Melvin Gordon. Something to think about, at least.

Probably not, but you never know...

Doubt it but id trade him for rookie RB Dexter Williams. We get off cheap.

[jamrock]

Would jamrock be happy with Saquon Barkley ?

Don't think so...

He's a stud. Of course