POLL: Is It Time To Bench Rivers?

[RyanLeaf4President]

I only blame Rivers for the 09 playoff loss to the Jets. Kaeding hurt them, but sometimes a star qb needs to take a team on his back and win a tough playoff game.

Rivers performed well in 06 playoff game, they should have won that. Every other time, he didn't have a chance.

Norv/McCoy gives him a pass in my book. Last year was disappointing, but once again, beyond his control.

Agree.

This is the one game I replay and think he could’ve done better. He had one freak INT that bounced off Jackson’s leg that was a fairly bad throw. And then the other INT was a very costly one that lead to the Jets first TD. And the ball was no where near Gates. Just straight to the defender.

Those mistakes aside the team shit the bed all around. We lost by 3. Kaeding missed 3. Cromartie scared to
tackle Greene which lead to a 55 YD TD(defense was playing pretty stellar, and if not for this I believe at worst they hold them to a FG). And then we couldn’t even stop them at the end to get the ball back for one last shot.

[RyanLeaf4President]

PR gets credit for spirit & toughness, still didn't make a key throw for the win. Sucks that LT was on the bench , Gates could barely run, Merriman was limping and Seau made a critical TFL on Turner for the Pats to avoid a TD.

Seems like the Chargers always beat the Chargers.

I’ve never blown out my ACL, but I’d imagine it to be pretty hard to make “key throws” with one, in the cold, while facing a top 5 defense that hadn’t lost a single game.

[RyanLeaf4President]

The point I’m trying to make is a lot of people try and blame Rivers as if everything solely falls on him. This is a team game, and you need a solid team to get to the super bowl.

Manning’s 06 playoff run featured 3 TD and 7 INT. His 2015 run featured 2 TD and 1 INT. Not really something you’d consider clutch playoff play, but he still won 2 rings with those stats.

yes rivers could’ve played better. But the teams could’ve also played a lot better too.

[ChargingBolts]

PR gets credit for spirit & toughness, still didn't make a key throw for the win. Sucks that LT was on the bench , Gates could barely run, Merriman was limping and Seau made a critical TFL on Turner for the Pats to avoid a TD.

Seems like the Chargers always beat the Chargers.

OR ...

When the Bolts play the Pats the Cheatriots cheat?

They became a dominant defense in the 2018 playoffs in the first half, because they knew which plays were to come? The Chargers lit them up in the second half after adjustments, so did the Chiefs.

[NoMoreChillies]

OR ...

When the Bolts play the Pats the Cheatriots cheat?

They became a dominant defense in the 2018 playoffs in the first half, because they knew which plays were to come? The Chargers lit them up in the second half after adjustments, so did the Chiefs.

give it 10 or so years after Bellicheck retires, writes his book and the truth come out. I got tinfoil hat theory we can chat about if your interested

[Guest]

Those positions do not have as big as an effect on the outcome of a game. The Trent Dilfer situation that is constantly brought up is an anomaly instead of the norm. Although rare, anomalies happen from time to time.

The unavoidable fact is that the QB position is the central figure on a football team and is expected to orchestrate and align almost everything that happens offensively. They are also expected to be the defacto leader of a team and how they act and perform under pressure has a direct impact and spreads to the rest of the team. We see the latter play out time and time again in football.

A less than elite QB being on a Super Bowl winning team is not a rare occurrence at all. Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett (2), Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning (2), Joe Flacco, Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer. Also, the dead armed remains of Peyton Manning was on a Super Bowl winning team just a few years ago.

The reality is that QBs get far too much credit and far too much blame. And that blame part goes double in the case of Rivers, who has had multiple MVP caliber seasons and yet is somehow blamed for every Chargers shortcoming under the sun, especially lately. Some of the takes I have read on this forum about Rivers' career are, frankly, astonishing. The numbers tell the story and it it is not the anti-Rivers BS that some have been spewing on this forum.

Being on a Super Bowl winning team does not somehow make a player better or worse. It means that the player has a good team that played well at the right time--nothing more and nothing less.

[RollingThunder]

Other than Jim McMahon and Dilfer, that's a pretty good list of QB's. While not elite in terms of a career, they either had elite seasons or elite crunch time performances in the super bowl or playoffs. Also, go through and tell me the TD to INT ratio please. My main problem isn't with Rivers careers or his overall stats, it's how he performs when the game is on the line. He is definitely not an elite crunch time performer, atleast not anymore if he ever was. He may have gotten some come back wins during the regular season here and there but his overall body of evidence is that he chokes when the game is on the line. Go check out his
stats one game ending interceptions. It won't look pretty.

[Guest]

Agree.

This is the one game I replay and think he could’ve done better. He had one freak INT that bounced off Jackson’s leg that was a fairly bad throw. And then the other INT was a very costly one that lead to the Jets first TD. And the ball was no where near Gates. Just straight to the defender.

Those mistakes aside the team shit the bed all around. We lost by 3. Kaeding missed 3. Cromartie scared to
tackle Greene which lead to a 55 YD TD(defense was playing pretty stellar, and if not for this I believe at worst they hold them to a FG). And then we couldn’t even stop them at the end to get the ball back for one last shot.

I disagree with the suggestion that the pass to Jackson was a "fairly bad throw". Against a blitz, that pass was virtually perfectly thrown to Jackson to allow Jackson to use his body position to shield Revis and catch the ball. Jackson should have caught the ball and yet somehow managed not only to not catch it, but also to allow it to hit off of his leg and then land on Revis while he was down on his back. That has to be one of the unluckiest interceptions in the playoffs ever.

The other INT to Leonhard was Rivers' one bad pass of the entire game. Of course, in the past couple of weeks, that whole game was Rivers' fault on this forum, not due to Nate Kaeding's 3 missed FGs, the multiple drive killing dropped passes (one of Gates' worst games ever), the Jammer pass interference, the Phillips head butting/Jackson kicking a challenge flag personal fouls penalties, the horrible defensive play call on the Jets 3rd and goal at the 2 yard line in deciding not to send pressure against Sanchez resulting in him having all day to throw, or the Cromartie unofficial signing with the Jets on Greene's run.

I was at that game and thought then as I do now that Rivers was the best player on the field that day for either team and the only Charger that seemed to have his head in the game. He was up against the #1 pass, #1 points and #1 overall ranked defense and if it were not for the mistakes of his teammates that limited his results and opportunities, he might have ripped them for 350+ yards instead of the 298 he actually had with the possibility of additional TDs as well. As it was, the team should have scored no fewer than 23 points.

The team really let Rivers down that day.

[Topcat]

A less than elite QB being on a Super Bowl winning team is not a rare occurrence at all. Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett (2), Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning (2), Joe Flacco, Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer. Also, the dead armed remains of Peyton Manning was on a Super Bowl winning team just a few years ago.

The reality is that QBs get far too much credit and far too much blame. And that blame part goes double in the case of Rivers, who has had multiple MVP caliber seasons and yet is somehow blamed for every Chargers shortcoming under the sun, especially lately. Some of the takes I have read on this forum about Rivers' career are, frankly, astonishing. The numbers tell the story and it it is not the anti-Rivers BS that some have been spewing on this forum.

Being on a Super Bowl winning team does not somehow make a player better or worse. It means that the player has a good team that played well at the right time--nothing more and nothing less.

If a QB can run the offense, make a few key short to intermediate passes and most importantly, not make errors, or very few errors, he puts his team in the best position to win. If we can draft or sign an "elite" QB, fine, as long as it doesn't break the bank. But if we can draft or sign a good QB who plays mostly mistake-free ball, this to me is even more important.

[RollingThunder]

A less than elite QB being on a Super Bowl winning team is not a rare occurrence at all. Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett (2), Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning (2), Joe Flacco, Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer. Also, the dead armed remains of Peyton Manning was on a Super Bowl winning team just a few years ago.

The reality is that QBs get far too much credit and far too much blame. And that blame part goes double in the case of Rivers, who has had multiple MVP caliber seasons and yet is somehow blamed for every Chargers shortcoming under the sun, especially lately. Some of the takes I have read on this forum about Rivers' career are, frankly, astonishing. The numbers tell the story and it it is not the anti-Rivers BS that some have been spewing on this forum.

Being on a Super Bowl winning team does not somehow make a player better or worse. It means that the player has a good team that played well at the right time--nothing more and nothing less.

Other than Jim McMahon and Dilfer, that's a pretty good list of QB's. While not elite in terms of a career(obviously Manning was elite), they either had elite seasons or elite crunch time performances in the super bowl or playoffs. Also, go through and tell me their TD to INT ratio in those seasons.

My main problem isn't with River's career numbers or his overall stats, it's how he performs when the game is on the line. He is definitely not an elite crunch time performer, atleast not anymore(if he ever was).

He may have gotten some come back wins during the regular season here and there but his overall body of evidence is that he chokes when the game is on the line. Go check out his stats on game ending interceptions. It won't look pretty.

Look I am not saying that the overall team and especially coaching does not matter, it does, one man absolutely can't do it all but where I think you devalue things is your insinuation that the QB position is just like any other. It's not. The QB touches the ball and is directly responsible for decisions that effect what will happen to that ball in almost 50% of the plays that make up a football game.

If I had to assign percentages of importance, I would rank it like this:

Offense excluding QB : 20%

Defense: 30%

Coaching: 25%

QB: 25%

As you can see that's a large percentage of responsibility I believe is assigned to 1 man. Having someone that is not good in this position could be very detrimental to a team's success.

I would even argue having a bad QB disrupts the 20% assigned to the rest of the offense as well.

[Topcat]

Other than Jim McMahon and Dilfer, that's a pretty good list of QB's. While not elite in terms of a career(obviously Manning was elite), they either had elite seasons or elite crunch time performances in the super bowl or playoffs. Also, go through and tell me their TD to INT ratio in those seasons.

My main problem isn't with River's career numbers or his overall stats, it's how he performs when the game is on the line. He is definitely not an elite crunch time performer, at least not anymore(if he ever was).

He may have gotten some come back wins during the regular season here and there but his overall body of evidence is that he chokes when the game is on the line. Go check out his stats on game ending interceptions. It won't look pretty.

Look I am not saying that the overall team and especially coaching does not matter, it does, one man absolutely can't do it all but where I think you devalue things is your insinuation that the QB position is just like any other. It's not. The QB touches the ball and is directly responsible for decisions that effect what will happen to that ball in almost 50% of the plays that make up a football game.

If I had to assign percentages of importance, I would rank it like this:

Offense excluding QB : 20%

Defense: 30%

Coaching: 25%

QB: 25%

As you can see that's a large percentage of responsibility I believe is assigned to 1 man. Having someone that is not good in this position could be very detrimental to a team's success.

I would even argue having a bad QB disrupts the 20% assigned to the rest of the offense as well.

Agree with this about 90%. The only thing I would add is that Rivers does not choke 100% of the time during crunch time. He HAS led a lot of game-winning drives. However, he has also LOST a LOT of games with unforced errors during crunch time; and again, it's not all on the O-line either. We need a QB who stays cool under pressure during crunch time...

[RyanLeaf4President]

I disagree with the suggestion that the pass to Jackson was a "fairly bad throw". Against a blitz, that pass was virtually perfectly thrown to Jackson to allow Jackson to use his body position to shield Revis and catch the ball. Jackson should have caught the ball and yet somehow managed not only to not catch it, but also to allow it to hit off of his leg and then land on Revis while he was down on his back. That has to be one of the unluckiest interceptions in the playoffs ever.

The other INT to Leonhard was Rivers' one bad pass of the entire game. Of course, in the past couple of weeks, that whole game was Rivers' fault on this forum, not due to Nate Kaeding's 3 missed FGs, the multiple drive killing dropped passes (one of Gates' worst games ever), the Jammer pass interference, the Phillips head butting/Jackson kicking a challenge flag personal fouls penalties, the horrible defensive play call on the Jets 3rd and goal at the 2 yard line in deciding not to send pressure against Sanchez resulting in him having all day to throw, or the Cromartie unofficial signing with the Jets on Greene's run.

I was at that game and thought then as I do now that Rivers was the best player on the field that day for either team and the only Charger that seemed to have his head in the game. He was up against the #1 pass, #1 points and #1 overall ranked defense and if it were not for the mistakes of his teammates that limited his results and opportunities, he might have ripped them for 350+ yards instead of the 298 he actually had with the possibility of additional TDs as well. As it was, the team should have scored no fewer than 23 points.

The team really let Rivers down that day.

Agree with all of that, which is why I have that 2nd paragraph there. The team all around shit the bed on that one. The only reason I stated this is because someone had said Rivers could’ve played better in the playoffs. And this is the one game where technically he could’ve played better. But I still don’t see it as his fault as there were so many other factors that gave us a 3 point loss. That defense could’ve easily held the Jets to 6-9 points.

When Manning made his run in 06 he threw 3 TD and 7 INT, yet everyone sees that as a super bowl Victory for him. Rivers has never had that kind of team.

[ChargingBolts]

Other than Jim McMahon and Dilfer, that's a pretty good list of QB's. While not elite in terms of a career(obviously Manning was elite), they either had elite seasons or elite crunch time performances in the super bowl or playoffs. Also, go through and tell me their TD to INT ratio in those seasons.

My main problem isn't with River's career numbers or his overall stats, it's how he performs when the game is on the line. He is definitely not an elite crunch time performer, atleast not anymore(if he ever was).

He may have gotten some come back wins during the regular season here and there but his overall body of evidence is that he chokes when the game is on the line. Go check out his stats on game ending interceptions. It won't look pretty.

Look I am not saying that the overall team and especially coaching does not matter, it does, one man absolutely can't do it all but where I think you devalue things is your insinuation that the QB position is just like any other. It's not. The QB touches the ball and is directly responsible for decisions that effect what will happen to that ball in almost 50% of the plays that make up a football game.

If I had to assign percentages of importance, I would rank it like this:

Offense excluding QB : 20%

Defense: 30%

Coaching: 25%

QB: 25%

As you can see that's a large percentage of responsibility I believe is assigned to 1 man. Having someone that is not good in this position could be very detrimental to a team's success.

I would even argue having a bad QB disrupts the 20% assigned to the rest of the offense as well.

Special teams 2010 & 2017 51%