POLL: Is It Time To Bench Rivers?

[ChargingBolts]

Football is not like the NBA, everyone slobbers all over Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant because they were so flashy and pretty but yet they missed more game winning shots than they made. Larry Bird was actually more clutch.

Rivers has 27 fourth quarter comebacks and 32 game winning drives but the NFL is a team sport.

So rag on Rivers for some bad decisions occassionally at the end of a game but don't forget how many games Jordan lost for the Bulls at the end of a close game, more losses than wins, nobody is ragging on him.

[Tol]

Will write something later...

[wu-dai clan]

Will write something later...

LOL. We are gonna need an essay.

[Gwynning_Spirit]

Football is not like the NBA, everyone slobbers all over Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant because they were so flashy and pretty but yet they missed more game winning shots than they made. Larry Bird was actually more clutch.

Rivers has 27 fourth quarter comebacks and 32 game winning drives but the NFL is a team sport.

So rag on Rivers for some bad decisions occassionally at the end of a game but don't forget how many games Jordan lost for the Bulls at the end of a close game, more losses than wins, nobody is ragging on him.

Yeah, just a wild guess, but people probably tend to forget stuff like that when you win 6 championships in 7 seasons.

[jamrock]

Football is not like the NBA, everyone slobbers all over Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant because they were so flashy and pretty but yet they missed more game winning shots than they made. Larry Bird was actually more clutch.

Rivers has 27 fourth quarter comebacks and 32 game winning drives but the NFL is a team sport.

So rag on Rivers for some bad decisions occassionally at the end of a game but don't forget how many games Jordan lost for the Bulls at the end of a close game, more losses than wins, nobody is ragging on him.

Nonsense. I don’t know what stats you’re looking at but the NBA plays 82 regular season games and then has a drawn out post season. They play nearly 100 games to get to the title. That’s a lot more games/shots.

[Guest]

Football is a team sport. It’s not baseball where your individual stats are in a vacuum. Or even basketball where an individual can achieve almost alone. Super Bowls are the ultimate goal/barometer and hence the true measure.

I disagree with the post above and believe it is the single most misguided argument in all of sports. Trent Dilfer was not better than Dan Marino. Jim Plunkett was not better than Dan Fouts. Eli Manning is not better than Philip Rivers. We know all of these things because the stats of the QBs listed above on Super Bowl winning teams are inferior to those of the QBs listed above that were never/have never been on Super Bowl winning teams.

It is precisely because football is a team sport that it is inappropriate to look at team accomplishments such as being on a Super Bowl winning team as meaning anything in terms of the quality of an individual player. The quality of an individual player is demonstrated by the player's stats. That's what the player did, not what his team did.

It is entirely possible for lesser QBs to be on Super Bowl winning teams, just as it is entirely possible for the greatest of QBs to be on teams that did not win Super Bowls. Super Bowl history is littered with examples of such lesser QBs on championship teams--Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett (2), Eli Manning (2), Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco and Nick Foles.

[ChargingBolts]

Yeah, just a wild guess, but people probably tend to forget stuff like that when you win 6 championships in 7 seasons.

MJ didn't win 6 in 7. MJ went 0 for 7 first 7 seasons then won 6 in 8 seasons then blanked for the rest of his career.

Bird didn't win 6 in 7. Kobe didn't win 6 in 7. Bird could have won more if he didn't have to play against Magic (say some other team drafted Magic), Magic could have won more if he didn't have to play against Bird (say some other team drafted Bird) Magic could have as many rings than MJ.

[ChargingBolts]

Nonsense. I don’t know what stats you’re looking at but the NBA plays 82 regular season games and then has a drawn out post season. They play nearly 100 games to get to the title. That’s a lot more games/shots.

NBA stats. My point is they are under .500 in taking those shots, doesn't matter if it's 50 games or 500 games, that's the %, so it's not non sense. You are correct that everygame in the NFL is weighted more, 1 game in NFL = 5 NBA games or 10 MLB games.

[jamrock]

NBA stats. My point is they are under .500 in taking those shots, doesn't matter if it's 50 games or 500 games, that's the %, so it's not non sense. You are correct that everygame in the NFL is weighted more, 1 game in NFL = 5 NBA games or 10 MLB games.

Ludicrous. Those guys are difference makers. Neither of their teams would have won titles without them.

[jamrock]

I disagree with the post above and believe it is the single most misguided argument in all of sports. Trent Dilfer was not better than Dan Marino. Jim Plunkett was not better than Dan Fouts. Eli Manning is not better than Philip Rivers. We know all of these things because the stats of the QBs listed above on Super Bowl winning teams are inferior to those of the QBs listed above that were never/have never been on Super Bowl winning teams.

It is precisely because football is a team sport that it is inappropriate to look at team accomplishments such as being on a Super Bowl winning team as meaning anything in terms of the quality of an individual player. The quality of an individual player is demonstrated by the player's stats. That's what the player did, not what his team did.

It is entirely possible for lesser QBs to be on Super Bowl winning teams, just as it is entirely possible for the greatest of QBs to be on teams that did not win Super Bowls. Super Bowl history is littered with examples of such lesser QBs on championship teams--Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett (2), Eli Manning (2), Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco and Nick Foles.

You can call it misguided but winning is what matters.

As for the bolded, if it's a team sport why are individual stats the barometer? Are those not a reflection of the team and coaches around them? How good was Fouts before Coryell?

[Guest]

You can call it misguided but winning is what matters.

As for the bolded, if it's a team sport why are individual stats the barometer? Are those not a reflection of the team and coaches around them? How good was Fouts before Coryell?

Yes, other players and coaches can have an influence on the results, which is precisely why one needs to isolate to the degree possible the player's performance and not the team's performance by examining stats over a significantly large sample size. By doing so, one can see what a player has done over the course of his career.

How many Super Bowl winning teams did Barry Sanders play for over the course of his career? The answer is zero and yet he is arguably the best RB ever to play in the history of the NFL. How about LaDainian Tomlinson? He was not too shabby either.

How many Super Bowl winning teams did Tony Gonzalez, Antono Gates and Jason Witten play for over the course of their careers? Yet those are three of the best TEs ever to play.

The same is true of the QB position. How many Super Bwl winning teams did Dan Fouts, Dan Marino and Warren Moon play for over the course of their careers?

So being on a Super Bowl winning team had nothing to do with the greatness of those players since they were not on one. Then why were they great? Because their stats said they were great.

If I am building a team, I want a Dan Marino, not a Trent Dilfer. Being on a Super Bowl winning team means zero, zip, nada, and absolutely nothing about how good an individual player is. It never has and it never will. Never. And it is mind boggling how so many people can't see that.

[RyanLeaf4President]

It’s crazy how many people shit on Rivers like he hasn’t carried this team on his back for 14 years. The man is top 10 in passing yards, passing TD, completion %, and QB Rating. And that is with 2 years sitting on the bench. I’ve seen a lot of blame be put on him for the team not winning division since 09. If our team hasn’t won the division since 09 with a future HoF QB, I put that on ownership/management, not him.

Has Rivers had some really bad games? Yes. Has he made some awful passes in desperation? Yes. He even cost us a couple games this year. But he’s also playing under an ownership who hasn’t really done much to fix problems that we have. While other teams are making big moves to bring players like Tunsil and Minkah Fitzpatrick in, were signing guys like Bob Sanders, Takeo Spikes, and Thomas Davis. I may be forgetting someone, but I feel like Pouncey is one of the only nice signings that’s been made by this team.

I feel the team needs to build up the line in the offseason and give the man one more shot. He’s the only reason the Chargers haven’t been the Browns of the AFC West.