2021 Draft Discussion - Bolts Pick 13th

[wu-dai clan]

Sorry my Wooded friend, I'm on the Darrisaw Train now. I've surrendered to the "long-arm" of the law...

I'll still take the beer...

I was talking to Tejas.
OK free beers for the drummer tambien.

HOWEVER.
The Oline situation is not fixed...not yet...not with these ideas.
I suggest you remeasure Darrisaw's pad level.
:beer:

[Boltnut]

Here are the top left tackles arm lengths:

David Bakhtiari - 34 inches
Ronnie Stanley - 35 5/8
Tyron Smith - 36 3/8
Trent Williams - 34 1/4
Terron Armstead - 34 1/8
Leremy Tunsil - 34 1/4
Taylor Lewan - 33 7/8 (under 34")
Anthony Castonzo - 34 1/2
Andrew Whitworth - 35 inches
Duane Brown - 34 1/4
Taylor Decker - 33 3/4 (under 34")

I don't think there is a single LT with 33" arms in the NFL. There are only a couple with 33 1/2 inch arms. I hate this fact. But it is a fact. GM's like their LT with 34+ inch arms...

[Boltnut]

I was talking to Tejas.
OK free beers for the drummer tambien.

HOWEVER.
The Oline situation is not fixed...not yet...not with these ideas.
I suggest you remeasure Darrisaw's pad level.
:beer:

LOL! Drummers get whatever they want... best to not upset them... unstable.
Darrisaw's pad level is pretty good... better than Cosmi's.
Not my rules...

[TexanBeerlover]

I apologize if I sound harsh, but to compare Cosmi with who Chargers rolled out @ LT is ludicrous.

Going to have to trade up for Slater, most definitely Sewell.

Have no issue trading up for those prospects.

Telesco is also going to have to pay franchise prices to extend either. I’m fine with that if Bezos is the new owner, but that is California dreaming.

Also did you guys miss, opportunity to leverage #13 into a franchise LT and CB? I’m outside the box. New around here, I get the hate, but I’ve been a Duck since 69 and Chargers fan since 73. So a little grain of salt in the wound. Quack Quack!

[Bolt Dude]

Here are the top left tackles arm lengths:

David Bakhtiari - 34 inches
Ronnie Stanley - 35 5/8
Tyron Smith - 36 3/8
Trent Williams - 34 1/4
Terron Armstead - 34 1/8
Leremy Tunsil - 34 1/4
Taylor Lewan - 33 7/8 (under 34")
Anthony Castonzo - 34 1/2
Andrew Whitworth - 35 inches
Duane Brown - 34 1/4
Taylor Decker - 33 3/4 (under 34")

I don't think there is a single LT with 33" arms in the NFL. There are only a couple with 33 1/2 inch arms. I hate this fact. But it is a fact. GM's like their LT with 34+ inch arms...

I don’t think it eliminates all the shorter armed guys, but the rest of their skill-sets need to be special. Off the top of my head, Jason Peters (33 1/8), Joe Thomas (33”ish), and Kelvin Beachum (33 1/4) all played at high levels in their primes. Quickness, footwork, and accurate hand placement are the equalizers. Slater seems to have those. Not sure about the rest.

edit: Here’s a recent article that explores the arm length issue https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/.amp/p...ensive-tackles

[Boltnut]

I apologize if I sound harsh, but to compare Cosmi with who Chargers rolled out @ LT is ludicrous.

Going to have to trade up for Slater, most definitely Sewell.

Have no issue trading up for those prospects.

Telesco is also going to have to pay franchise prices to extend either. I’m fine with that if Bezos is the new owner, but that is California dreaming.

Also did you guys miss, opportunity to leverage #13 into a franchise LT and CB? I’m outside the box. New around here, I get the hate, but I’ve been a Duck since 69 and Chargers fan since 73. So a little grain of salt in the wound. Quack Quack!

I love Cosmi! I hate all the slop the Chargers have rolled out at tackle since Telesco has been here (minus 1 year of Okung)!
But Cosmi's 33" arms are going to concern many NFL GM's. It's a paradigm they can't get over. Not my rules...

Having said that, I think Cosmi is a good comp with retired Anthony Castonzo. Colts have Braden Smith at RT. Maybe they'll take Cosmi in the 1st...

[Guest]

I don’t think it eliminates all the shorter armed guys, but the rest of their skill-sets need to be special. Off the top of my head, Jason Peters (33 1/8), Joe Thomas (33”ish), and Kelvin Beachum (33 1/4) all played at high levels in their primes. Quickness, footwork, and accurate hand placement are the equalizers. Slater seems to have those. Not sure about the rest.

33.75" for Joe Thomas.

[Boltnut]

I don’t think it eliminates all the shorter armed guys, but the rest of their skill-sets need to be special. Off the top of my head, Jason Peters (33 1/8), Joe Thomas (33”ish), and Kelvin Beachum (33 1/4) all played at high levels in their primes. Quickness, footwork, and accurate hand placement are the equalizers. Slater seems to have those. Not sure about the rest.

Peters, Thomas, and Beachum are exceptions to the rule. Very rare.

[like54ninjas]

Here are the top left tackles arm lengths:

David Bakhtiari - 34 inches
Ronnie Stanley - 35 5/8
Tyron Smith - 36 3/8
Trent Williams - 34 1/4
Terron Armstead - 34 1/8
Leremy Tunsil - 34 1/4
Taylor Lewan - 33 7/8 (under 34")
Anthony Castonzo - 34 1/2
Andrew Whitworth - 35 inches
Duane Brown - 34 1/4
Taylor Decker - 33 3/4 (under 34")

I don't think there is a single LT with 33" arms in the NFL. There are only a couple with 33 1/2 inch arms. I hate this fact. But it is a fact. GM's like their LT with 34+ inch arms...

If this is a metric added to athleticism, great film, ascending technique, and a nasty finisher to make an ideal prospect then why not grab in the 2nd/3rd round?

Spencer Brown, DS #9 OT, Northern Iowa

Name: Spencer Brown College: Northern Iowa Number: 76 Height: 6-8 Weight: 311 Position: OT Pos2: Class/Draft Year: rSr/2021 40 Low: 4.87 40 Time: 4.94 40 High: 5.00 Projected Round: 4-5 Stock:

Combine Results		Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes Height: 6082 Weight: 311 Zybek PD3X AKA "Official" 40 Yard Dash (ET): 40 Yard Dash (HH): 20 Yard (ET): 20 Yard (HH): 10 Yard (ET): 10 Yard (HH):	225 Lb. Bench Reps: Vertical Jump: Broad Jump: 20 Yrd Shuttle: 3-Cone Drill:	Dates: 03/22/21 Hand: 10 3/8 Arm: 34 3/4 Wingspan: 82 5/8 Height: 6082 Weight: 311 40 Yrd Dash: 4.94 20 Yrd Dash: 2.83 10 Yrd Dash: 1.69	225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29 Vertical Jump: 31 1/2 Broad Jump: 09'09" 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.40 3-Cone Drill: 6.96 40 Time Range: 4.92-4.95/Projected 4.93

If you want an OLT that is a 3+ year starter in the SEC with measurables, traits, team captain/leader and outstanding 2020 tape, on day 3 (he’ll go round 4-6) take....
.

Dan Moore Jr., DS #20 OT, Texas AM

Name: Dan Moore Jr. College: Texas AM Number: 65 Height: 6-6 Weight: 311 Position: OT Pos2: OG Class/Draft Year: Sr/2021 40 Low: 5.15 40 Time: 5.21 40 High: 5.28 Projected Round: 7-HPFA Stock:

Combine Results		Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes Height: 6055 Weight: 311 Zybek PD3X AKA "Official" 40 Yard Dash (ET): 40 Yard Dash (HH): 20 Yard (ET): 20 Yard (HH): 10 Yard (ET): 10 Yard (HH):	225 Lb. Bench Reps: Vertical Jump: Broad Jump: 20 Yrd Shuttle: 3-Cone Drill:	Dates: 03/30/21 Hand: 10 1/4 Arm: 34 1/2 Wingspan: 83 1/2 Height: 6055 Weight: 311 40 Yrd Dash: 5.21 20 Yrd Dash: 2.91 10 Yrd Dash: 1.84	225 Lb. Bench Reps: 28 Vertical Jump: 30 1/2 Broad Jump: 09'02" 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.73 3-Cone Drill: 7.56 40 Time Range: 5.19-5.23/Projected 5.36

[Guest]

If this is a metric added to athleticism, great film, ascending technique, and a nasty finisher to make an ideal prospect then why not grab in the 2nd/3rd round?

Spencer Brown, DS #9 OT, Northern Iowa

Name: Spencer Brown College: Northern Iowa Number: 76 Height: 6-8 Weight: 311 Position: OT Pos2: Class/Draft Year: rSr/2021 40 Low: 4.87 40 Time: 4.94 40 High: 5.00 Projected Round: 4-5 Stock:

Combine Results		Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes Height: 6082 Weight: 311 Zybek PD3X AKA "Official" 40 Yard Dash (ET): 40 Yard Dash (HH): 20 Yard (ET): 20 Yard (HH): 10 Yard (ET): 10 Yard (HH):	225 Lb. Bench Reps: Vertical Jump: Broad Jump: 20 Yrd Shuttle: 3-Cone Drill:	Dates: 03/22/21 Hand: 10 3/8 Arm: 34 3/4 Wingspan: 82 5/8 Height: 6082 Weight: 311 40 Yrd Dash: 4.94 20 Yrd Dash: 2.83 10 Yrd Dash: 1.69	225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29 Vertical Jump: 31 1/2 Broad Jump: 09'09" 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.40 3-Cone Drill: 6.96 40 Time Range: 4.92-4.95/Projected 4.93

If you want an OLT that is a 3+ year starter in the SEC with measurables, traits, team captain/leader and outstanding 2020 tape, on day 3 (he’ll go round 4-6) take....
.

Dan Moore Jr., DS #20 OT, Texas AM

Name: Dan Moore Jr. College: Texas AM Number: 65 Height: 6-6 Weight: 311 Position: OT Pos2: OG Class/Draft Year: Sr/2021 40 Low: 5.15 40 Time: 5.21 40 High: 5.28 Projected Round: 7-HPFA Stock:

Combine Results		Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes Height: 6055 Weight: 311 Zybek PD3X AKA "Official" 40 Yard Dash (ET): 40 Yard Dash (HH): 20 Yard (ET): 20 Yard (HH): 10 Yard (ET): 10 Yard (HH):	225 Lb. Bench Reps: Vertical Jump: Broad Jump: 20 Yrd Shuttle: 3-Cone Drill:	Dates: 03/30/21 Hand: 10 1/4 Arm: 34 1/2 Wingspan: 83 1/2 Height: 6055 Weight: 311 40 Yrd Dash: 5.21 20 Yrd Dash: 2.91 10 Yrd Dash: 1.84	225 Lb. Bench Reps: 28 Vertical Jump: 30 1/2 Broad Jump: 09'02" 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.73 3-Cone Drill: 7.56 40 Time Range: 5.19-5.23/Projected 5.36

Christian Darrisaw, 34.5" arms. I am good with Spencer Brown too a little bit later in the draft as a swing tackle this year and Bulaga replacement at RT.

[Boltnut]

.

edit: Here’s a recent article that explores the arm length issue https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/.amp/p...ensive-tackles

"It's not the most important thing," Mora said. "If you said I could have a guy with 35-inch arms but he had average feet and average lateral quickness then I would say, 'Well, I don't know, what's my alternative?' Then say, 'OK, you can have a guy with 33 1/2-inch arms with great lateral quickness.' I'd take the 33 1/2-inch arms with lateral quickness every single day."

Here's the question though... what if you had a guy with 34 1/2 inch arms AND good lateral quickness...? Every single day... and twice on Sundays.

[Critty]

I get that the "low effort" plays are a concern. But his "longer" arms are ideal for pass blocking. And VT was a great running team... especially running to his gap. With pros surrounding him (and expectations higher) I would be surprised to see "low effort" from him in the NFL. His length and power can not be ignored. He has better balance than almost any prospect.

I'm not sold on a majority of the 2nd round prospects... especially considering all of the T-Rex armed prospects. Christensen (32 1/4 inch arms) is probably a guard in the NFL. The only "long armed" prospects (Spencer Brown and D'Ante Smith) are projects. Hudson is both a project and shorter arms (33 inches)...

Christensen may have to move inside, but I think a team would be wise to first give him an opportunity to play the same position he played in college. And then move him if he struggled to widen the pass rusher because his arms were a bit shorter than ideal measurements.

Here is an interesting analysis
It attempted to see if there was a statistically significant difference in performance based on arm length and it could not find any. And what was unexpected is it found that the performance actually went slightly down as the arm length increased.

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

And considering so many other things that can't be measured with with a measuring tape, like effort, awareness, technique, toughness, timing up the block, etc..... That may be why arm length does not have significant correlation to performance.

Guys like Jason Peters, Joe Staley, Joe Thomas all were in the 33 inch range.
A player like Isaiah Wynn plays left tackle pretty well and he is not the typical prototype. 6'3 and 33 arms

I think 33 is enough especially if they have good feet and awareness and are quick off the snap with a good motor.

Clearly DJ Fluker 36.75 arms didn't help him become a quality tackle in the NFL.

Christensen, he is 32.25
so .75 short of hitting that 33 mark. But I think it's a mistake to discount him and say he has to play guard. He is still 6'6 300.

Braden Smith has played right tackle for 3 seasons with Colts and he also has 32.25 arms. He is a pretty good player.

Just think the most important thing is can they play the position at a high level even if they are not prototype.

QBs like Brees and Wilson were drafted lower because of lack of prototype build. Jackson was thought by some to need to change to a WR because of his style of play.

Whatever the position, think what matters most is how well they played it and then give them the opportunity to play it in NFL before switching the position. And in drafting I would not put a prototype build above a player who played it better.