2024 Chargers Draft Superthread - Prospect Discussion - Draft Has Started

[wu-dai clan]

Verse-AD Mitchell ?
Or Nabors-Elliss ?

Choose your weapons
and square off hombre.

[DerwinBosa]

Lets address this one paragraph at a time. It's not about which position is more valuable. It's about who the better talent is. And yes both MH2 and Nabors are
better weapons than Alt. Alt is a fine player, but he may not even be the best OT out of this class. It's debatable. So yes I see it differently.

I believe Harrison is a better player than Alt. I don't believe Nabers is. I don't understand how you see it differently, or any way at all, when you have admitted you barely watch college football.

The highest paid RT in the league right now is Jawaan Taylor taken in round 2. Brian O'Neill also paid nicely round 2. Braden Smith Rd. 2. So they are there.
Don't necessarily need to draft in round 1. Now there are quite a few Rd. 1 RT that are or have been great, no question. But also plenty of WRs taken in Rd1.

Jawaan Taylor, Brian O'Neill, and Braden Smith...three names you came up with. That's not nearly as many as the impressive wide receivers and tight ends selected after the first round. None of those three are nearly as great at their position as Davante Adams, Deebo Samuel, Cooper Kupp, Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs, Travis Kelce, George Kittle, Mark Andrews, Sam LaPorta--and on and on it goes--are. Taylor, O'Neill, and Smith combined have made one Pro Bowl and zero All-Pro teams. Pick any receiver or tight end I listed drafted after the first round...they have achieved more individual accolades in the NFL than those three combined. Why? Because in recent years the best right tackles were the ones who were drafted in the first round.

1. Penei Sewell (First-Team All-Pro in 2023 and two-time Pro Bowler). Selected seventh overall in 2021.
2. Lane Johnson (Four-time All-Pro and five-time Pro Bowler). Selected fourth overall in 2013.
3. Tristan Wirfs (two-time All-Pro and two-time Pro Bowler as a right tackle). Selected 13th overall in 2020. He made the Pro Bowl as a left tackle this past season.
4. Jack Conklin (two-time All-Pro). Selected eighth overall in 2016.
5. Ryan Ramczyk (three-time All-Pro). Selected 32nd overall in 2017.

Jedrick Wills is another very good right tackle who's better than the three you mentioned. He was selected 10th overall in 2020.

The last right tackle selected after the first round to make All-Pro was Mitchell Schwartz, and he did it in 2019. Marcus Cannon is the only other All-Pro right tackle who wasn't selected in the first round to make All-Pro in the last ten years. He fell to the fifth round in the 2011 NFL Draft after he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin Lymphoma shortly after the Combine.

Good-to-great offensive tackles on both sides of the line are much harder to get after the first round.

We don't know if a good or great RT will be available in round 2. We know there are at least 3 good to great receivers in the top 10. Ditto OTs.

We don't know that. It's the projection. There were three wide receivers taken in the top ten of the 2017 NFL Draft (Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross). Williams is the only one who has fallen into the good category.

[charger1_sj]

WR don't make you a complete team unless he's the only missing piece. How many examples can we give you that this is a splashy move doesn't work great, Media will grade it super high, and still not make this team like JH wants.
Look at Detroit Lions history.
TRADE down is the best option. 4 QB's and 3 WR's and maybe a TE go in first 11 picks. That leaves a lot of great options out there.
You want OL, you can still get a good one. We desperately need Defense ( not flashly like BB or WR ). There has been little talk here about a Edge or CB being drafted here. 9-12 would be a great place to start.
WE NEED PICKS!. That a PERIOD at the end of the sentence

We have a $50M QB with a $100M dollar arm. Best thing we can do is take advantage of that situation. We may keep one of Bosa or Mack. Along with Tuli
that fixes edge. CB is a problem area for sure. As is IDL, LB. IDL and LB can be had in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds. CB is our weak spot. We messed up
with Jackson and Davis. Now it needs fixing.

I still take MH2 or Nabors @5 if available over trading down. Herbert desperately needs weapons. We don't even know if Allen will be back. No TE or RB either.

[northerner]

Small market team had a huge hand in making the storied big market team a champion again. Hmmmmm, reminds me of a trade that allowed the small market soon on their way out of New Orleans Jazz to give the pick that would be Magic Johnson to the Lakers for a bag of beans.

wow, never heard of this nba trade (slightly before my time by a couple of years). interesting. thanks.

btw, there are still people in new orleans who want the "jazz" name back (my daughter moved there from california a few years ago).

[Topcat]

Dude that was 33 years ago when RBs were considered a very important position. Fast forward to 2023. The in thing is big athletic QBs that can hurt
you with the run or pass.

Okay, okay...BUT...the point is...did more fleecing take place with the Saints Ricky Williams deal or the Vikes with Herschel Walker...I say giving up THREE first rounders, THREE second rounders, plus other picks and players, must have been the worst fleecing of all-time...and the Vikes had nobody to blame but themselves for shooting themselves in the pata...

In the Ricky Williams deal, yes, the Saints did give up a total of three 1st rounders, including Williams, but NO second round picks. They sure did give up a lot, though:

image.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Williams_trade

[dmac_bolt]

Every time we play the Raiders (Maxx Crosby) or any team with a good pass rush, "shit gushes into our house".
Do we have other needs...? Of course. But if you want to "protect the QB and run the ball"... then RT is a bigger need than you're perceiving. If a quality RB can be drafted in the 3rd or 4th round (or picked up cheaply in FA)... then why are we portraying that need as a 1st round priority? Same goes for Edge, LB, IDL, and CB. Edge and CB could certainly fit into the 1st round priority conversation. But they could also fit into the 3rd round conversation... especially considering a scheme that emphasizes zone coverage and OLB's that can drop into coverage.

Dallas Turner is a versatile edge player that fits well. Quinyan Mitchell and Terrion Arnold are players that are considered very good at zone coverage concepts. I'm open minded about both (all three). But I'm also open minded about OLB and CB prospects in the 3rd round (CB) and OLB (4th round).

I must apologize about being close minded about 3rd and 4th round OT's. They probably wouldn't be any better than the "gushing shit" problem we currently have @RT. Maybe... maybe there is a nearly 2nd round RT prospect that could solve our sewer problem... but I see some OC's that I like much better (BPA's) in the 2nd round.

On The Charger team, thats absolutely incorrect. More pressures and sacks came from the inside than the two OTs combined. Both injuries also came from the inside. So no, Protect the QB has to start inside.

Pipkins had a down year, I don’t disagree. But every OL player on the Chargers had a down year, even Slater. iIf they take Alt, or Fuaga, thats fine by me - I just don’t agree that they HAVE to, they can move Salyer to RT.

Crosby had zero sacks the last time we played LVR. FYI, stat master. Tillery did, though (cough).

[charger1_sj]

I believe Harrison is a better player than Alt. I don't believe Nabers is. I don't understand how you see it differently, or any way at all, when you have admitted you barely watch college football.



Jawaan Taylor, Brian O'Neill, and Braden Smith...three names you came up with. That's not nearly as many as the impressive wide receivers and tight ends selected after the first round. None of those three are nearly as great at their position as Davante Adams, Deebo Samuel, Cooper Kupp, Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs, Travis Kelce, George Kittle, Mark Andrews, Sam LaPorta--and on and on it goes--are. Taylor, O'Neill, and Smith combined have made one Pro Bowl and zero All-Pro teams. Pick any receiver or tight end I listed drafted after the first round...they have achieved more individual accolades in the NFL than those three combined. Why? Because in recent years the best right tackles were the ones who were drafted in the first round.

1. Penei Sewell (First-Team All-Pro in 2023 and two-time Pro Bowler). Selected seventh overall in 2021.
2. Lane Johnson (Four-time All-Pro and five-time Pro Bowler). Selected fourth overall in 2013.
3. Tristan Wirfs (two-time All-Pro and two-time Pro Bowler as a right tackle). Selected 13th overall in 2020. He made the Pro Bowl as a left tackle this past season.
4. Jack Conklin (two-time All-Pro). Selected eighth overall in 2016.
5. Ryan Ramczyk (three-time All-Pro). Selected 32nd overall in 2017.

The last right tackle selected after the first round to make All-Pro was Mitchell Schwartz, and he did it in 2019. Marcus Cannon is the only other All-Pro right tackle who wasn't selected in the first round to make All-Pro in the last ten years. He fell to the fifth round in the 2011 NFL Draft after he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin Lymphoma shortly after the Combine.

Good-to-great offensive tackles on both sides of the line are harder to get after the first round.



We don't know that. It's the projection. There were three wide receivers taken in the top ten of the 2017 NFL Draft (Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross). Williams who has fallen into the good category.

I didn't say I don't watch college ball. I said I don't follow it. Meaning I don't tune in every week for every game. I do watch the top teams, especially the SEC since
that's where the top talent seems to be year in and out. Now if you ask me about C. Williams or USC I know nothing. I watched Oregon and Washington because they
were top teams competing for a spot on the national championship. .

Yes I do believe Nabors is a better talent than Alt. CBS now that I look at it has Nabors 3rd best overall. Alt
is rated as the 2nd best OT @ 8.

I obviously did not look at all 32 starting ROT. Nor did I look at the last 10-15 years of WR and OTs. I just looked at the top 8 guys. and found 3 2nd rounder there.
So it's possible to get a starting good RT in round 2. That was the point, not to go into the history of RT all pros. Unfortunately you cannot have All Pros at all
positions It doesn't work that way. Not sure what your post proves. OT are coveted in the NFL that's why they are taken in Rd 1. There are All Pros at every
position. Most would be 1st rounders. That's the way it works and for good reason. The top RT right now is not a 1st rounder. So there's that. You draft very
high for LT. When they don't work out, you move them to the right. So there is good reason behind the numbers of All Pro RTs being 1st rounders.

WRs are far more difficult to grade out. That's because they depend on the QB. So you need good scouts to find them, sometimes in the later rounds.
When you have a combo like Daniels and Nabors it's much easier to grade out. And you know the story on MH2.

If MH2, Nabors are projections so is Alt. What's the point, we just disagree.

[Critty]

On The Charger team, thats absolutely incorrect. More pressures and sacks came from the inside than the two OTs combined. Both injuries also came from the inside. So no, Protect the QB has to start inside.

Pipkins had a down year, I don’t disagree. But every OL player on the Chargers had a down year, even Slater. iIf they take Alt, or Fuaga, thats fine by me - I just don’t agree that they HAVE to, they can move Salyer to RT.

Crosby had zero sacks the last time we played LVR. FYI, stat master. Tillery did, though (cough).

Right. Did you watch the Raiders game. They helped Pipkins and put Slater on the island all game. And then Pipkins even after being help d with chip completely whiff his block and Herbert had nowhere to go.....M.Koonce had went wide around edge of Slater, but because Pipkins even after help failed had nowhere to go. Koonce got strip sack and Hankins scoop and scored on the fumble recovery. Officially the sack strip goes to Slater. But unofficially on game film the entire play sucked because Pipkins was helped and still immediately failed to stop Crosby for a split second, giving Herbert no room for a pocket which allowed Koonce wide outside rush to get there. And when you look at it, you should be able to tell, if Pipkins was better, he doesn't need help, giving Herbert another option to throw to. And if Pipkins can do his job well without help, then there is a Pocket. Sack allowed went to Slater. The fail was Pipkins.

[Boltnut]

On The Charger team, thats absolutely incorrect. More pressures and sacks came from the inside than the two OTs combined. Both injuries also came from the inside. So no, Protect the QB has to start inside.

Pipkins had a down year, I don’t disagree. But every OL player on the Chargers had a down year, even Slater. iIf they take Alt, or Fuaga, thats fine by me - I just don’t agree that they HAVE to, they can move Salyer to RT.

Crosby had zero sacks the last time we played LVR. FYI, stat master. Tillery did, though (cough).

Protect the QB can come from any OL position we choose... could be IOL or OT.
A new center will have to happen. OG's play will have to improve. If a mid/late round OG does that... get it done.
But saying that the IOL sucked more does not excuse Pipkins from his history of suck-iness.
If you want to improve the stank @RT... it most likely will be done in the 1st round.
If you want to improve the stank @IOL (specifically OC) it most likely will be done in the 2nd round.
If you want to improve the stank @OG... it will most likely be done with a mid/late rounder.

They could move Salyer to RT... I've been suggesting that for two years (before the Pip re-sign).
But as many have pointed out... he has no NFL experience there... just as he had no NFL experience @RG (w/questionable results).

IMO, it is far less risky to let Salyer stay @RG and get more experience.
IMO, it is far less risky to leave Zion @LG... his natural position.
Both of these guys have 1 NFL year of experience @those positions.
We've seen Pipkins @RT for 5 years now.
You're satisfied with Pipkins' 5 years (3 of which he couldn't even break the starting lineup) but are unsatisfied that both OG's could improve at their respective positions in 2nd years...?

That's just a very weird stance to take.

[dmac_bolt]

Right. Did you watch the Raiders game. They helped Pipkins and put Slater on the island all game. And then Pipkins even after being help d with chip completely whiff his block and Herbert had nowhere to go.....M.Koonce had went wide around edge of Slater, but because Pipkins even after help failed had nowhere to go. Koonce got strip sack and Hankins scoop and scored on the fumble recovery. Officially the sack strip goes to Slater. But unofficially on game film the entire play sucked because Pipkins was helped and still immediately failed to stop Crosby for a split second, giving Herbert no room for a pocket which allowed Koonce wide outside rush to get there. And when you look at it, you should be able to tell, if Pipkins was better, he doesn't need help, giving Herbert another option to throw to. And if Pipkins can do his job well without help, then there is a Pocket. Sack allowed went to Slater. The fail was Pipkins.

Lol, you pick out one dramatic play, as if one play actually means something. Can you name a RT that was never beat once?

But headstrong and full of fury, gosh darn you’re gonna prove Pipkins is the worst player on the team. And io do that, you selected a play where Slater got beat for a somewhat rare (for him) sack? Thats fucking awesome!

[DerwinBosa]

Yes I do believe Nabors is a better talent than Alt. CBS now that I look at it has Nabors 3rd best overall. Alt
is rated as the 2nd best OT @ 8.

Who cares? How have YOU determined that Nabers is a better prospect than Alt? You're basing your opinion on what someone else wrote over what you've watched--if you have even watched Nabers and Alt play?

I obviously did not look at all 32 starting ROT. Nor did I look at the last 10-15 years of WR and OTs. I just looked at the top 8 guys. and found 3 2nd rounder there.
So it's possible to get a starting good RT in round 2. That was the point, not to go into the history of RT all pros. Unfortunately you cannot have All Pros at all
positions It doesn't work that way. Not sure what your post proves. OT are coveted in the NFL that's why they are taken in Rd 1. There are All Pros at every
position. Most would be 1st rounders. That's the way it works and for good reason. The top RT right now is not a 1st rounder. So there's that. You draft very
high for LT. When they don't work out, you move them to the right. So there is good reason behind the numbers of All Pro RTs being 1st rounders.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The best right tackles in the NFL right now were all drafted in the first round. Penei Sewell is probably the best right tackle in the NFL currently. If not, it's Lane Johnson. They were both selected in the top seven. Wirfs was in the conversation before he moved to left tackle. The three right tackles you picked out are not nearly as impressive. And where in my post did I say we need All-Pros at all positions?

My post proves that the majority of the All-Pro right tackles were selected in the first round. There are many more outstanding wide receivers and tight ends who were drafted after the first round. Is it possible we can get a good or outstanding right tackle after the first round? Yes. Has recent history shown it's as likely to get one after the first round as it is to find a good-to-great receiver or tight end later than the first round? Absolutely not.

If MH2, Nabors are projections so is Alt. What's the point, we just disagree.

You said we know there are at least three good-to-great receivers who will be picked in the top ten. No we don't. I have a great feeling that Harrison will be great. He will probably and should be gone before we pick. I think Odunze will be very good. I have my doubts about Nabers.

[Lone Bolt]

Verse-AD Mitchell ?
Or Nabors-Elliss ?

Choose your weapons
and square off hombre.

Odunze-Kneeland?