Future With Lynn?

[Bolt4Knob]

Norv was fired at 7-9, after that 2012 season. The team moved on from him. We have to hope Dean comes to his senses with Lynn.

I hope Tony Pauline's reports are true. All the stuff about how Lynn is respected by people and all that jazz has to be smoke-and-mirrors, if those reports about the team pulling the plug with him holds any water.

Here is the thing - and I had a little twitter exchange with Krasovic yesterday - but about Lynn. A lot of the stuff written about Lynn in terms of the positives (good in the building, leader of men, well respected, kept the team together in the move) - are all things that the public really cannot see. They are almost the intangibles of the job so to speak.

But, all the negatives about Lynn - are during the game when broadcasters, pundits, fans, the players even - can see his weaknesses. Its game management, strategy, clock management, playing games close to the vest. Krasovic seemed to agree about the positives and negatives

Yes, he and staff did a good job with Herbert. But looking ahead, is he the right coach looking forward. If you keep him - just know that the Chargers will play more games like yesterday, close to the vest, down to the wire. Its how he coaches - he is not changing.

Now SPecial TEams could get better; maybe he moves on from Bradley - but you know what you will get with him.

My guess, Tony Pauline is wrong if he has the Chargers firing Lynn - I think they were looking for reasons to keep him and this will do it. Now if they lost yesterday - I think he would have been gone.

[KrazyLegs]

Here is the thing - and I had a little twitter exchange with Krasovic yesterday - but about Lynn. A lot of the stuff written about Lynn in terms of the positives (good in the building, leader of men, well respected, kept the team together in the move) - are all things that the public really cannot see. They are almost the intangibles of the job so to speak.

But, all the negatives about Lynn - are during the game when broadcasters, pundits, fans, the players even - can see his weaknesses. Its game management, strategy, clock management, playing games close to the vest. Krasovic seemed to agree about the positives and negatives

Yes, he and staff did a good job with Herbert. But looking ahead, is he the right coach looking forward. If you keep him - just know that the Chargers will play more games like yesterday, close to the vest, down to the wire. Its how he coaches - he is not changing.

Now SPecial TEams could get better; maybe he moves on from Bradley - but you know what you will get with him.

My guess, Tony Pauline is wrong if he has the Chargers firing Lynn - I think they were looking for reasons to keep him and this will do it. Now if they lost yesterday - I think he would have been gone.

Three things:

1)
Even in the irrationally inept universe of the Chargers Front Office, it's hard to imagine beating a terrible Broncos team yesterday (and this after choking away another double-digit lead) would actually salvage a disastrous season by our coaching staff. Then again after the Spani fired Marty, hired & extended Norv and hired & extended McCoy, nothing should surprise us.

2)
All of those things you listed as Lynn's positives, are really just table stakes for being a head coach. Like, honestly, if you can't lead a team you shouldn't be a head coach. If you're not respected by the players (and I'm not even sure Lynn is), you shouldn't be a head coach. Being a "good man"...LOL, gimme a break. Whenever people start using that as a reason to keep a coach, it's code for completely incompetent.

3)
All of the negatives you listed are actually table stakes for being a head coach, too. Like, if you can't coach on game day, you shouldn't be a coach. The one exception is clock management. Because for some reason we've seen a ton of coaches who have no idea how to use timeouts and manage the clock become head coaches (like Andy Reid). The problem is that you really don't know if a guy can coach on Sundays until you give him the chance. And this is the problem with giving a glorified RB coach the keys to the team. High likelihood of crashing and burning. And that's what he did.


We've seen Lynn set records for coaching futility this season. That's who he is. Chargers Nation has had very little to look forward to the last several seasons. Now we have a burgeoning superstar QB to watch and the prospect of dumping this LOSER coaching staff. Keeping Lynn would kill any hope that's left inside of us.

[JOJAX85]

Three things:

1)
Even in the irrationally inept universe of the Chargers Front Office, it's hard to imagine beating a terrible Broncos team yesterday (and this after choking away another double-digit lead) would actually salvage a disastrous season by our coaching staff. Then again after the Spani fired Marty, hired & extended Norv and hired & extended McCoy, nothing should surprise us.

2)
All of those things you listed as Lynn's positives, are really just table stakes for being a head coach. Like, honestly, if you can't lead a team you shouldn't be a head coach. If you're not respected by the players (and I'm not even sure Lynn is), you shouldn't be a head coach. Being a "good man"...LOL, gimme a break. Whenever people start using that as a reason to keep a coach, it's code for completely incompetent.

3)
All of the negatives you listed are actually table stakes for being a head coach, too. Like, if you can't coach on game day, you shouldn't be a coach. The one exception is clock management. Because for some reason we've seen a ton of coaches who have no idea how to use timeouts and manage the clock become head coaches (like Andy Reid). The problem is that you really don't know if a guy can coach on Sundays until you give him the chance. And this is the problem with giving a glorified RB coach the keys to the team. High likelihood of crashing and burning. And that's what he did.


We've seen Lynn set records for coaching futility this season. That's who he is. Chargers Nation has had very little to look forward to the last several seasons. Now we have a burgeoning superstar QB to watch and the prospect of dumping this LOSER coaching staff. Keeping Lynn would kill any hope that's left inside of us.

Unfortunately, this is the state of this organization. Ineptitude starts with the ownership. They are content on being average/below average as long as the money keeps coming in. And in the NFL, it always will.

[powderblueboy]

Agree. I just don't trust our front office/ owners to do the right thing.

And according to Critty, it seems only our team was missing multiple players lol.

There will never be enough pro bowlers with these type of arguments.
Get blown out by New England in the playoffs: this team lacks talent to compete.

Never enough!

[Boltjolt]

yeah, maybe we should have a 170 page thread for Herb. We are witnessing greatness

There is a thread now, start posting. He may or may not break the yardage record. Either way im ok with it as i didnt know who had the record anyways. He will come close if he doesnt break it and yes, he is a rookie phenom and we made the right choice and Miami gave him to us.

Id never guess he would have this type of season but its sure nice to se what he has accomplished.

[Boltjolt]

Here is the thing - and I had a little twitter exchange with Krasovic yesterday - but about Lynn. A lot of the stuff written about Lynn in terms of the positives (good in the building, leader of men, well respected, kept the team together in the move) - are all things that the public really cannot see. They are almost the intangibles of the job so to speak.

But, all the negatives about Lynn - are during the game when broadcasters, pundits, fans, the players even - can see his weaknesses. Its game management, strategy, clock management, playing games close to the vest. Krasovic seemed to agree about the positives and negatives

Yes, he and staff did a good job with Herbert. But looking ahead, is he the right coach looking forward. If you keep him - just know that the Chargers will play more games like yesterday, close to the vest, down to the wire. Its how he coaches - he is not changing.

Now SPecial TEams could get better; maybe he moves on from Bradley - but you know what you will get with him.

My guess, Tony Pauline is wrong if he has the Chargers firing Lynn - I think they were looking for reasons to keep him and this will do it. Now if they lost yesterday - I think he would have been gone.

Lynn has no killer instinct. When we win its always a close game that we squeek out. We have scored 348 points and given up 408. That needs to be flipped and it shows we dont win by much though it is skewed by the 45-0 blowout.

Lynn is too old skool in his offense. Yes it can work but he doesnt try anything new. He has Reed(hurt i know) and i agree with Ninja that with his size and running ability he should get some carries at RB and some other plays you see other WRs do. No imagination on offense though Herbert is doing great with what we are doing but geez at least have the element or surprise in the plan.

I hate coaches with no killer instinct to put teams away and we always end up with them like Norv, McCoy and now Lynn. Thats a bundle of Wuss right there.

[powderblueboy]

A front office that never gets things right, but somehow got things right choosing Lynn.


As for what Lynn brings to the table, I only see hand waving arguments. Vague amorphous type of comments about how he is instilling a 'culture' at Charger Park.

Is it a culture of discipline? No, too many penalties and blown assignments.
Is it a culture of toughness and fundamentals? No, they can't run the football, tackle the runner, nor play special teams to save their lives.
Is it a culture of innovative, cutting edge game planning? No, next question.
Is it a culture of effort and selflessness? No, Lynn himself complained about how the players feel like they are doing him a favor in playing special teams, while Bosa questioned whether players would play hard after the New England debacle.

What is it? Well, it seems to be a team that can only beat the leagues trash provided they win the turnover battle, primarily because their qb is leaps and bounds better than the opposing one.

Now they are trying to hang their hat onto Herbert's star; and yet, the offense has scored 21+ only once in the last 5 contests.
Teams have taken away what they like to do since the Miami game, and the coaching staff hasn't countered.

[Critty]

I simply don't see the HC as why this team is 6-9.
maybe I can find a single win that coaching it different could maybe have added a win making the team 7-8 right now.
But I know a made FG at end of regulation vs Saints is for sure a win. I know a catch by Williams is for sure a win. I know a better play on 4th down by Facyson in back of endzone equal a win. I can find 3 wins for sure if players made plays that were right there to make. They say players just want to have an opportunity to make plays to be in position to make plays to win games. Well....they were in those situations and they didn't make the play. Players play coaches coach. You can't coach a player to make the play everytime without error, you can only help put them in position to make plays.

My issue is talent and health.
Get a lead, you know the other team has to pass.
That when it supposed to be time for pass rusher to feast and pad stats. Ingram ZERO sacks. What has Tillery done. Nwosu. Where is he? Wasn't Attachou supposed to be that guy? Telesco got one with pick#3 Bosa and he was hurt at times and missed games and parts of games. And the opponent can double Bosa and say to Chargers defenders, beat us. We dare you. The blitz isn't getting there. When Addae off the street comes down to threaten Blitz. He doesn't get home when he blitzes or cover well like Derwin James can.

When Ekeler went down the avg per carry dropped significantly by 1.5 yards.

Who are the impact players and where are they?
Do fans realize Allen was torching the Saints and then didn't play the final 3 quarters. Do fans realize Bosa missed a bunch of snaps in that game. So they realize Hayward went off the field late in that game. These are not easy obstacles for a HC to overcome. Your backup can do what Allen and Bosa can do.
Making life easier for other team.

I predicted 6 wins make for 49ers because of roster issues.
I predicted no better than 8 wins for Patriots because of one player. One single player no longer there.

And I thought the Chargers roster was bottom 10 team without James, Ingram, Bosa, Allen, Ekeler, Bulaga, Henry, Turner, etc....alll missing parts or all of games and season.

Of their top 10 players I think only Herbert has be able to start and play each game. The rest of top 10 have been MIA or Walking wounded.

And to think with all that if 3 plays there to be made, were made 1.Badger makes a kick, 2.Williams a catch and 3.either Facyson a better play or ref keep flag in pocket on 4th down.
Then this is a 9-6 team with Herbert rookie of year.
3 plays. Three wins.

If I'm a player on the team I'm not looking at my HC and thinking we aren't winning because he sucks, I'm thinking we need to make the plays that are there to make. We have the opportunities to win these game. The coaches have done enough with game plan and game calls to put us in position to make winning plays. We have to make them. The kicks and the catches.

i know some here have a laundry list of blame about Lynn and how it all leads to team winning many more game, a playoff spot and even the #1 seed. But I simply disagree. The AFC 8th seed is a 10 win team and if playoff started today they would be in same spot Lynn and the Chargers are at. Not in the tournament. The health of the impact starters and defenders matters. These games are not close because Lynn tries to keep them close. No HC tries to keep the opponent in the game. They are close because the NFL is the most competitive football league there is. The top teams have many close games. They just happen to have better health with star players. And have kickers making kicks and players making catches to close those deals. Chargers players didn't make enough of those plays this year.

And if the team is going to start over.
Then I want a full restart and Telesco fired too.

Lynn2021
:salute:

[Bolt4Knob]

A front office that never gets things right, but somehow got things right choosing Lynn.


As for what Lynn brings to the table, I only see hand waving arguments. Vague amorphous type of comments about how he is instilling a 'culture' at Charger Park.

Is it a culture of discipline? No, too many penalties and blown assignments.
Is it a culture of toughness and fundamentals? No, they can't run the football, tackle the runner, nor play special teams to save their lives.
Is it a culture of innovative, cutting edge game planning? No, next question.
Is it a culture of effort and selflessness? No, Lynn himself complained about how the players feel like they are doing him a favor in playing special teams, while Bosa questioned whether players would play hard after the New England debacle.

What is it? Well, it seems to be a team that can only beat the leagues trash provided they win the turnover battle, primarily because their qb is leaps and bounds better than the opposing one.

Now they are trying to hang their hat onto Herbert's star; and yet, the offense has scored 21+ only once in the last 5 contests.
Teams have taken away what they like to do since the Miami game, and the coaching staff hasn't countered.

Here is the thing - I bet even the Spanii and Telesco know the weaknesses of Lynn. Pundits and analysts do, Popper does - I bet a guy like Jeremiah does. So, the Chargers brass are deciding
1) do we keep him because we like him basically -
2) fire him as he isn't the best gameday coach but this "other stuff" is pretty good

It should be a no-brainer. And maybe it will be. And I get that MW dropped a touchdown pass but if Jeudy catches that one with 20 seconds to go - Adderley was not going to tackle him - that would have been ball game and for sure Lynn doesn't save his job. So, by any means, if thats what it took to save his job - shouldn't he be gone

End of the day - if you keep Lynn, you are going to play "flip a coin" games that come down to a play or two. 2018 - they made them; last year and this year, they didn't. Is that really what you want - hope you can win close games. As really, he has had lousy special teams for four years - do we really think he can "fix it" - I don't.

[BigBad]

I simply don't see the HC as why this team is 6-9.

This isn't 1980 where you either have great players or suck, the talent level is pretty even across the league. The coaching game today is all about offensive creativity and IN-GAME adjustments. The constant blame on health is just an excuse. How does "health" create so many AWFUL 3rd quarters? How does health cause so many EMBARRASSING called out idiocy with the clock by announcers who generally go out of their way to not offend people? How does health affect simple blocking assignments on special teams?

[Silversurfer]

This isn't 1980 where you either have great players or suck, the talent level is pretty even across the league. The coaching game today is all about offensive creativity and IN-GAME adjustments. The constant blame on health is just an excuse. How does "health" create so many AWFUL 3rd quarters? How does health cause so many EMBARRASSING called out idiocy with the clock by announcers who generally go out of their way to not offend people? How does health affect simple blocking assignments on special teams?

Agreed, If it wasnt for Jeudy having butter fingers we probably lose that game yesterday.

[Bolt4Knob]

I simply don't see the HC as why this team is 6-9.
maybe I can find a single win that coaching it different could maybe have added a win making the team 7-8 right now.
But I know a made FG at end of regulation vs Saints is for sure a win. I know a catch by Williams is for sure a win. I know a better play on 4th down by Facyson in back of endzone equal a win. I can find 3 wins for sure if players made plays that were right there to make. They say players just want to have an opportunity to make plays to be in position to make plays to win games. Well....they were in those situations and they didn't make the play. Players play coaches coach. You can't coach a player to make the play everytime without error, you can only help put them in position to make plays.

My issue is talent and health.
Get a lead, you know the other team has to pass.
That when it supposed to be time for pass rusher to feast and pad stats. Ingram ZERO sacks. What has Tillery done. Nwosu. Where is he? Wasn't Attachou supposed to be that guy? Telesco got one with pick#3 Bosa and he was hurt at times and missed games and parts of games. And the opponent can double Bosa and say to Chargers defenders, beat us. We dare you. The blitz isn't getting there. When Addae off the street comes down to threaten Blitz. He doesn't get home when he blitzes or cover well like Derwin James can.

When Ekeler went down the avg per carry dropped significantly by 1.5 yards.

Who are the impact players and where are they?
Do fans realize Allen was torching the Saints and then didn't play the final 3 quarters. Do fans realize Bosa missed a bunch of snaps in that game. So they realize Hayward went off the field late in that game. These are not easy obstacles for a HC to overcome. Your backup can do what Allen and Bosa can do.
Making life easier for other team.

I predicted 6 wins make for 49ers because of roster issues.
I predicted no better than 8 wins for Patriots because of one player. One single player no longer there.

And I thought the Chargers roster was bottom 10 team without James, Ingram, Bosa, Allen, Ekeler, Bulaga, Henry, Turner, etc....alll missing parts or all of games and season.

Of their top 10 players I think only Herbert has be able to start and play each game. The rest of top 10 have been MIA or Walking wounded.

And to think with all that if 3 plays there to be made, were made 1.Badger makes a kick, 2.Williams a catch and 3.either Facyson a better play or ref keep flag in pocket on 4th down.
Then this is a 9-6 team with Herbert rookie of year.
3 plays. Three wins.

If I'm a player on the team I'm not looking at my HC and thinking we aren't winning because he sucks, I'm thinking we need to make the plays that are there to make. We have the opportunities to win these game. The coaches have done enough with game plan and game calls to put us in position to make winning plays. We have to make them. The kicks and the catches.

i know some here have a laundry list of blame about Lynn and how it all leads to team winning many more game, a playoff spot and even the #1 seed. But I simply disagree. The AFC 8th seed is a 10 win team and if playoff started today they would be in same spot Lynn and the Chargers are at. Not in the tournament. The health of the impact starters and defenders matters. These games are not close because Lynn tries to keep them close. No HC tries to keep the opponent in the game. They are close because the NFL is the most competitive football league there is. The top teams have many close games. They just happen to have better health with star players. And have kickers making kicks and players making catches to close those deals. Chargers players didn't make enough of those plays this year.

And if the team is going to start over.
Then I want a full restart and Telesco fired too.

Lynn2021
:salute:

I agree that Telesco needs to go too. He has not proven he can build a good OL and some of his draft picks this draft and the last one are still evolving.

Everything equal and you give me two scenarios
1) Telesco back and Lynn fired
2) Lynn back (especially if he replaces ST and Bradley) and Telesco fired

I am actually doing the second. Telesco doesn't deserve another coaching hire thats for sure.