2021 Official Chargers Season Discusssion

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  • BoltUp InLA
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Sep 2020
    • 544
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    Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

    Fair enough with your points. This has been a consistent theme not being able to get off the field. Even the Eagles and Browns games - did the defense really get off the field

    i still think its a talent and depth issue. Also Staleys first year as a head coach - it should be his toughest year as a head coach - he should get better.
    Here is an article that supports your concerns..


    Chargers’ third-down defense is a growing concern: What went wrong vs. Vikings

    By Daniel Popper Nov 18, 2021 9
    We have discussed the Chargers’ offensive inconsistencies at length over this recent stretch in which the team has lost three of four games, and they are certainly a big part of the slide. But another concerning trend has emerged since Week 6: the Chargers’ third-down defense. And their struggles to get off the field against the Vikings, particularly in the second half, contributed significantly to the loss.

    Overall, the Chargers allowed the Vikings to convert five of their 14 third downs. That does not tell the whole story, however. That figure does not include a pass interference penalty on Chris Harris Jr. on a third-and-10 in the third quarter. And an 18-yard completion to Adam Thielen on third-and-20 on the final drive of the game shows up as a stop on the box score, when in reality it was the play that sealed the game.

    The Chargers rank 30th in third-down defense on the season. They are allowing opposing offenses to convert nearly 46 percent of their third downs. Only the Falcons and Washington Football Team have been worse. The Chargers have plummeted down the rankings over their past four games. Through the first five weeks, the Chargers ranked 17th in third-down defense and allowed conversions on 41.8 percent of third downs, according to TruMedia. Since Week 6, the Chargers have allowed conversions on 50 percent of their third downs. Only the Jets, Lions and Washington have been worse in that span.

    For most of this season, the porous run defense was a key factor in the Chargers’ below-average third-down defense. Opposing offenses were able to set up manageable third downs by attacking the Chargers on the ground. Through the first nine weeks of the season, opposing offenses faced an average third-down distance to a gain of 6.28 yards against the Chargers, fifth shortest in the league, according to TruMedia. When the Chargers avoided those manageable situations, they excelled. Through the first nine weeks, they ranked sixth in third-down defense when opposing offenses had 6 or more yards to gain for a first down.

    The run defense has been improving steadily since the Week 7 bye, and the Chargers had one of their better performances against the run this season Sunday, holding the Vikings to 3.1 yards per carry on 33 attempts. But this time, the Chargers’ pass defense did not hold up when they forced third-and-longs. The Vikings faced an average third-down distance to gain 8.23 yards, the sixth longest of any team in Week 10. They were still successful.

    Thielen and Justin Jefferson combined for six catches for 94 yards on third down against the Chargers. The Vikings officially converted four of their eight third downs in the second half. If you factor in Harris’ pass interference, it’s 5 of 9. And, again, Thielen’s third-and-20 reception was a very productive play that technically counted as a failed conversion. So more like 6 of 9.

    The Chargers were without Michael Davis, who missed his second straight game with a hamstring injury. They missed his presence. Tevaughn Campbellstarted in his place and had a rough day.

    The primary issue for Campbell was poor technique and not playing his leverages correctly based on where his help was. This showed up on several third-down conversions.

    First, there was a third-and-15 completion to Jefferson in the second quarter. Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins set up in shotgun with Jefferson isolated against Campbell to the left side of the formation. Jefferson ran an out route to the first-down marker.



    Jefferson took an inside release at the snap, and Campbell was in good position playing outside leverage — or, in other words, playing to the outside of the receiver to take away any route to the sideline. As you can see, Campbell had clear help to the inside on any in-breaking routes from safety Trey Marshall, who is circled in yellow.



    As Jefferson hit the top of his route, though, Campbell overcommitted and got out of position. He grabbed Jefferson as the receiver tried to break and was flagged for pass interference on the play.



    Because of Marshall’s help to the inside, Campbell should have never overplayed this route. He should have stayed outside to defend the out route.

    Jefferson broke free with Campbell to his inside, and Cousins completed it for an 18-yard completion.





    Campbell was then beat twice on the final game-clinching drive from the Vikings — first by Jefferson on a go route, and second by Thielen on an in-breaker. Campbell was again out of position on both of these routes.

    On the Jefferson completion, the Vikings faced a third-and-6 from their own 29-yard line. Jefferson was isolated outside to the right against Campbell, who was in press coverage at the line of scrimmage.



    Campbell jammed Jefferson as the play began to develop.



    But Jefferson was able to shake off the contact and gain a step on Campbell with an outside release. Cousins saw it and delivered a beautiful ball down the right sideline. As soon as Jefferson took an outside release, Campbell should have gained depth to avoid getting beat on the go route. Campbell had help to the inside from Alohi Gilman, the post defender who is circled in yellow.



    Jefferson adjusted and made a fantastic leaping catch for a crucial 27-yard gain.



    As coach Brandon Staley put it earlier this week, “We’re in the middle of the field closed, so he needs to be on top of that route. That’s where he fell short. When you’re in post middle, you need to be on top of that route. When you get an outside release, you need to be on top of the route. If you’re going to lose, you’re going to lose on a comeback, you’re going to lose on a stop route — you’re not going to lose on a (go route). Even though that it was a spectacular throw and catch, it shouldn’t be there for him to make that catch because we should be on top of the route.”

    Three plays later, the Vikings went back at Campbell. This time, the Chargers cornerback was matched up with Thielen. The Vikings faced a third-and-20 from their own 46. Thielen was lined up to the outside right of the Minnesota formation and ran a deep dig, or in route. Campbell was in off coverage.



    Campbell dropped at the snap.



    But as Thielen went into his break, Campbell was too deep. The Chargers were in split-safety man coverage, and Campbell had help over the top from Marshall, who is circled in yellow. Because of the help over the top, Campbell should have been more aggressive on this throw and sunk onto Thielen’s route to cut it off.



    Thielen broke in and had 3 yards of separation.



    Easy completion.



    The completion set up a fourth-and-2 that the Vikings converted on a Dalvin Cook pitch to end the game.

    The issues extended beyond Campbell. Harris had that penalty. The Chargers miscommunicated on two third downs that led directly to conversions.

    They also had positive moments, especially in that first half, when the coverage was very tight and connected.

    But the mishaps changed the game.

    The Chargers rushed the passer very well in this game. They finished with 21 pressures, according to Pro Football Focus, and creating third-and-longs contributed massively to that. The improved run defense is giving the Chargers the third-down opportunities they have been seeking all season. Now the secondary has to hold up its end.

    Davis returned to practice fully Thursday. So did safety Nasir Adderley, who missed the Vikings game with an ankle injury. With the secondary back to full strength, and the run defense finding consistency, perhaps third-down improvement is on the horizon.


    Comment

    • Velo
      Ride!
      • Aug 2019
      • 11106
      • Everywhere
      • Leave the gun, take the cannolis
      • Send PM

      With all the hand-wringing we are putting ourselves through the past few weeks, let's not forget that the Chargers are still well-positioned to make the playoffs. And if they get in, anything can happen. Herbert and the offense can get hot. If that happens, there is a chance. There is precedent for a team that struggled during the regular season to squeak into the post season and will it all.

      In 2010, the Packers snuck in as a wildcard with a 10-6 record. They had lost 3 of 4 twice that season. They only won 2 of their final 4 games (though the two wins were in the last two games of the season). They snuck in and the young Aaron Rodgers got hot, the Packers won three games on the road and then beat the Steelers in the SB in Dallas.

      In 2012, the Ravens needed a miracle to make the post-season (they got it by converting 4th & 29). They lost four of their final five games. But still they did win their division tied with Cincy at 10-6 but owned the tie-breaker. In the post season Flacco got hot, the Ravens beat the Colts at home followed by the Broncos in Denver then the Patriots in New England in the Championship game. Then they beat the 49ers in the Super Bowl in the Super Dome.

      It happens. Teams can struggle during the season then get hot at the end of the season and into the post-season. Herbert is a young QB still figuring it out. Ditto with Staley, it's a brand new coaching staff, with new offensive and defensive schemes. It's entirely possible this team could finally start figuring it out toward the season's end then make a run in the playoffs.

      Comment

      • Topcat
        AKA "Pollcat"
        • Jan 2019
        • 18028
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        Originally posted by BoltUp InLA View Post
        Here is an article that supports your concerns..


        Chargers’ third-down defense is a growing concern: What went wrong vs. Vikings

        By Daniel Popper Nov 18, 2021 9
        We have discussed the Chargers’ offensive inconsistencies at length over this recent stretch in which the team has lost three of four games, and they are certainly a big part of the slide. But another concerning trend has emerged since Week 6: the Chargers’ third-down defense. And their struggles to get off the field against the Vikings, particularly in the second half, contributed significantly to the loss.

        Overall, the Chargers allowed the Vikings to convert five of their 14 third downs. That does not tell the whole story, however. That figure does not include a pass interference penalty on Chris Harris Jr. on a third-and-10 in the third quarter. And an 18-yard completion to Adam Thielen on third-and-20 on the final drive of the game shows up as a stop on the box score, when in reality it was the play that sealed the game.

        The Chargers rank 30th in third-down defense on the season. They are allowing opposing offenses to convert nearly 46 percent of their third downs. Only the Falcons and Washington Football Team have been worse. The Chargers have plummeted down the rankings over their past four games. Through the first five weeks, the Chargers ranked 17th in third-down defense and allowed conversions on 41.8 percent of third downs, according to TruMedia. Since Week 6, the Chargers have allowed conversions on 50 percent of their third downs. Only the Jets, Lions and Washington have been worse in that span.

        For most of this season, the porous run defense was a key factor in the Chargers’ below-average third-down defense. Opposing offenses were able to set up manageable third downs by attacking the Chargers on the ground. Through the first nine weeks of the season, opposing offenses faced an average third-down distance to a gain of 6.28 yards against the Chargers, fifth shortest in the league, according to TruMedia. When the Chargers avoided those manageable situations, they excelled. Through the first nine weeks, they ranked sixth in third-down defense when opposing offenses had 6 or more yards to gain for a first down.

        The run defense has been improving steadily since the Week 7 bye, and the Chargers had one of their better performances against the run this season Sunday, holding the Vikings to 3.1 yards per carry on 33 attempts. But this time, the Chargers’ pass defense did not hold up when they forced third-and-longs. The Vikings faced an average third-down distance to gain 8.23 yards, the sixth longest of any team in Week 10. They were still successful.

        Thielen and Justin Jefferson combined for six catches for 94 yards on third down against the Chargers. The Vikings officially converted four of their eight third downs in the second half. If you factor in Harris’ pass interference, it’s 5 of 9. And, again, Thielen’s third-and-20 reception was a very productive play that technically counted as a failed conversion. So more like 6 of 9.

        The Chargers were without Michael Davis, who missed his second straight game with a hamstring injury. They missed his presence. Tevaughn Campbellstarted in his place and had a rough day.

        The primary issue for Campbell was poor technique and not playing his leverages correctly based on where his help was. This showed up on several third-down conversions.

        First, there was a third-and-15 completion to Jefferson in the second quarter. Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins set up in shotgun with Jefferson isolated against Campbell to the left side of the formation. Jefferson ran an out route to the first-down marker.



        Jefferson took an inside release at the snap, and Campbell was in good position playing outside leverage — or, in other words, playing to the outside of the receiver to take away any route to the sideline. As you can see, Campbell had clear help to the inside on any in-breaking routes from safety Trey Marshall, who is circled in yellow.



        As Jefferson hit the top of his route, though, Campbell overcommitted and got out of position. He grabbed Jefferson as the receiver tried to break and was flagged for pass interference on the play.



        Because of Marshall’s help to the inside, Campbell should have never overplayed this route. He should have stayed outside to defend the out route.

        Jefferson broke free with Campbell to his inside, and Cousins completed it for an 18-yard completion.





        Campbell was then beat twice on the final game-clinching drive from the Vikings — first by Jefferson on a go route, and second by Thielen on an in-breaker. Campbell was again out of position on both of these routes.

        On the Jefferson completion, the Vikings faced a third-and-6 from their own 29-yard line. Jefferson was isolated outside to the right against Campbell, who was in press coverage at the line of scrimmage.



        Campbell jammed Jefferson as the play began to develop.



        But Jefferson was able to shake off the contact and gain a step on Campbell with an outside release. Cousins saw it and delivered a beautiful ball down the right sideline. As soon as Jefferson took an outside release, Campbell should have gained depth to avoid getting beat on the go route. Campbell had help to the inside from Alohi Gilman, the post defender who is circled in yellow.



        Jefferson adjusted and made a fantastic leaping catch for a crucial 27-yard gain.



        As coach Brandon Staley put it earlier this week, “We’re in the middle of the field closed, so he needs to be on top of that route. That’s where he fell short. When you’re in post middle, you need to be on top of that route. When you get an outside release, you need to be on top of the route. If you’re going to lose, you’re going to lose on a comeback, you’re going to lose on a stop route — you’re not going to lose on a (go route). Even though that it was a spectacular throw and catch, it shouldn’t be there for him to make that catch because we should be on top of the route.”

        Three plays later, the Vikings went back at Campbell. This time, the Chargers cornerback was matched up with Thielen. The Vikings faced a third-and-20 from their own 46. Thielen was lined up to the outside right of the Minnesota formation and ran a deep dig, or in route. Campbell was in off coverage.



        Campbell dropped at the snap.



        But as Thielen went into his break, Campbell was too deep. The Chargers were in split-safety man coverage, and Campbell had help over the top from Marshall, who is circled in yellow. Because of the help over the top, Campbell should have been more aggressive on this throw and sunk onto Thielen’s route to cut it off.



        Thielen broke in and had 3 yards of separation.



        Easy completion.



        The completion set up a fourth-and-2 that the Vikings converted on a Dalvin Cook pitch to end the game.

        The issues extended beyond Campbell. Harris had that penalty. The Chargers miscommunicated on two third downs that led directly to conversions.

        They also had positive moments, especially in that first half, when the coverage was very tight and connected.

        But the mishaps changed the game.

        The Chargers rushed the passer very well in this game. They finished with 21 pressures, according to Pro Football Focus, and creating third-and-longs contributed massively to that. The improved run defense is giving the Chargers the third-down opportunities they have been seeking all season. Now the secondary has to hold up its end.

        Davis returned to practice fully Thursday. So did safety Nasir Adderley, who missed the Vikings game with an ankle injury. With the secondary back to full strength, and the run defense finding consistency, perhaps third-down improvement is on the horizon.
        In short, Campbell is a backup for a reason...

        Comment

        • Boltgang74
          We Are The Storm!
          • Aug 2018
          • 4594
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          Originally posted by Topcat View Post

          In short, Campbell is a backup for a reason...
          TTs depth is a problem

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          • jamrock
            lawyers, guns and money
            • Sep 2017
            • 13232
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            Originally posted by Topcat View Post

            In short, Campbell is a backup for a reason...
            Not only did he get burned for big plays he dropped a wide open INT after Theilen fell down with nothing but fake green grass in front of him.

            Comment

            • CivilBolt
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Nov 2019
              • 2073
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              Originally posted by Topcat View Post

              In short, Campbell is a backup for a reason...
              I think he is serviceable and can still improve. Let’s see how Vato performs against the Steelers.

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              • Formula 21
                The Future is Now
                • Jun 2013
                • 16356
                • Republic of San Diego
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                Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                If Lombo had a thoroughbred, he'd probably turn it into a plowhorse...
                If we had only kept Tyrod Taylor….
                Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
                The Wasted Decade is done.
                Build Back Better.

                Comment

                • BoltUp InLA
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Sep 2020
                  • 544
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                  This has been a crazy and wide open AFC season no doubt. Maybe, just maybe, the Chargers problems are fixable, especially as key players return from injuries. It certainly exposes that this roster lacks depth.

                  Comment

                  • Boltjolt
                    Dont let the PBs fool ya
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 26836
                    • Henderson, NV
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                    Originally posted by BoltUp InLA View Post
                    This has been a crazy and wide open AFC season no doubt. Maybe, just maybe, the Chargers problems are fixable, especially as key players return from injuries. It certainly exposes that this roster lacks depth.


                    It wasn't a secret. Preseason showed that.

                    Comment

                    • Topcat
                      AKA "Pollcat"
                      • Jan 2019
                      • 18028
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                      Originally posted by Boltjolt View Post
                      [/B]

                      It wasn't a secret. Preseason showed that.
                      Yep...and this is where TT blew it...I'll give him credit for signing Lindsley, Feiler and Aboushi...BUT...he KNEW Bulaga was injury-prone, and he KNEW our pass rush and run-stuffing were suspect...at the very least, TT should have tried to sign a decent DL and backup RT...

                      Comment

                      • TexanBeerlover
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Feb 2021
                        • 1788
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                        Originally posted by Topcat View Post

                        Yep...and this is where TT blew it...I'll give him credit for signing Lindsley, Feiler and Aboushi...BUT...he KNEW Bulaga was injury-prone, and he KNEW our pass rush and run-stuffing were suspect...at the very least, TT should have tried to sign a decent DL and backup RT...
                        Don't forget corner.

                        Comment

                        • Bolt-O
                          Administrator
                          • Jun 2013
                          • 32352
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                          Current Playoff Seeding for the AFC

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