Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

[like54ninjas]

i was surprised T Billy was waived, after all that was said in preseason.
I would guess that it didn't so much come down to special teams usage as it came down to who was the more reliable route runner in the new offense.
It couldn't have come down to Guyton's hands being better.

ST value, blocking, and reports from TC that Johnson was chirping a lot.

[powderblueboy]

Palmer gets his nourishment playing ST which TBilly just can’t/won’t do.
Plus Staley has Tru Blood

Players do not get blood nourishment on special teams: lets not dive into nonsense - anyone can play that game.
Sometimes, i feel as if i am the only adult here
(save for one other member who I will leave nameless for now)

[equivocation]

Is this an Anne Rice novel?

[FarAwayBoltFan]

Is this an Anne Rice novel?

Charlaine Harris in this case but if blood (True or otherwise) is the nourishment the Chargers need, maybe it's time to reboot the Chargers Blood Drive!

[Guest]

I'll raise you a more obvious point...

it's difficult to comprehend because you're dismissing obvious evidence by calling it irrelevant, it's perfectly relevant and you know that, especially as a professional lawyer
if Johnson was balling out in Jax, you would be using that as evidence for what he could have potentially provided us, and you'd be right to do so.
In this case, his lack of production provides evidence for justification for getting cut.
does it prove anything? No. But certainly you can appreciate evidence even if it hurts your argument, right?

I have never maintained that Johnson was a great fit for every team. My concern has always been about what we lost in cutting Johnson. What Johnson does or does not do for another team is irrelevant as he has already proven what he can do for us. There is no debate. There is no speculation. The results are in and final on that point.

He was a fit for our team because Herbert excels at passing the ball deep and because neither Allen nor Williams are burners. He was a perfect complement to them. He and Guyton could combine to put added pressure on defenses in a fashion similar to Hardman and Hill. I always thought of them as the poor man's Hill and Hardman.

It is pretty unbelievable to me that posters recognize that opponents are so concerned about the deep passing game displayed last year that they are altering their defensive alignments to prevent it on the one hand, but on the other go on to dismiss Johnson's vital role in the deep passing game that has created such an impact on our opponents.

I said our deep passing game would suffer with Palmer and without Johnson and it has. I do not think I could have been more right about that, though it has only been four games. I think it is crystal clear that Palmer is not a deep threat like Johnson was for us.

Also, we are the only team that has given Johnson a significant number of in game snaps. He is one for one when given a meaningful opportunity to play.

While it is still early, Palmer has not been of any significance at all, actually producing at about one-third of the rate at which I expected him to produce given all of the team's preseason hype of him as a great WR.

[Velo]

i was surprised T Billy was waived, after all that was said in preseason.
I would guess that it didn't so much come down to special teams usage as it came down to who was the more reliable route runner in the new offense.
It couldn't have come down to Guyton's hands being better.

Yeah, Guyton definitely does not have the better hands of the two. I strongly suspect the reason T Johnson was cut comes down to some character issue that we are not aware of, but may find out about later. I don't know why he didn't play special teams. With his speed and hands, he might have been asked to serve as a kick and or punt returner and he said no.

[Guest]

In the 3 targets he's had, on 2 he's been open in the intermediate range. 3rd was a checkdown on a bootleg. Don't know how his non-targets have looked. 62.1 on pff so he's likely getting some separation.

Versus 78.4 for Tyron Johnson in 2020 and with far less production.

[Guest]

Herbert was balling on a 3 - 9 roster with an Oline filled with backups and scrubs.

Ceiling is a completely useless term once the draft process has ended.
No one says that Mitch Trubisky failed to reach his ceiling....he sucks.

WTF?! Herbert had great options in the passing game last year--Allen, Williams, Henry, Parham, Ekeler, and Guyton and Johnson as strong deep threats.

A team without the same receiving options in addition to a weak offensive line definitely can prevent a QB from reaching his ceiling.

[Guest]

Johnson has 1 catch for 6 yards and Palmer has 3 catches for 17 yards, so I am struggling with understanding the algorithm for your outpacing calculation. I would have been fine keeping him but your exaggerations about his irreplaceable value have exceeded their shelf life.

In 17 games, at last year's pace of production, this is what Johnson's numbers would have looked like: 37 targets, 28 receptions, 557 yards, 4 TDs, 19.9 yards per reception, and a very good 78.4 PFF rating.

For the 50th time, what Johnson does for some other team is totally irrelevant to what he has proven he can do for our team. We are not guessing at what might happen. We already know what did happen when Johnson played for us.

Honestly, based upon what Palmer has shown so far, I am not sure he will beat the above numbers in any season unless we are talking about a greater opportunity on a second contract with another team. Based upon what the team had to say about him this preseason, I expected much more from Palmer, but his performance so far has lined up with the lack of elite traits that I have observed all along.

We used a third round pick on Palmer, who is doing worse than Johnson, and we cut Johnson. It looks like a pretty boneheaded move so far, though it is still early.

[Guest]

Yeah, Guyton definitely does not have the better hands of the two. I strongly suspect the reason T Johnson was cut comes down to some character issue that we are not aware of, but may find out about later. I don't know why he didn't play special teams. With his speed and hands, he might have been asked to serve as a kick and or punt returner and he said no.

That is pure unsupported speculation, but I understand the desire to come up with a reason to justify what looks like a bad move in cutting Johnson.

As I have said all along, I think Guyton and Johnson are close and both are better than Palmer when it comes to our passing attack.

[Velo]

That is pure unsupported speculation, but I understand the desire to come up with a reason to justify what looks like a bad move in cutting Johnson.

As I have said all along, I think Guyton and Johnson are close and both are better than Palmer when it comes to our passing attack.

The Chargers have moved on from decent players in the past in moves that flabbergasted fans in the moment but the reasons later became apparent when details about the player emerged. Darius Philon was one. Chris McCain was another.

[like54ninjas]

In 17 games, at last year's pace of production, this is what Johnson's numbers would have looked like: 37 targets, 28 receptions, 557 yards, 4 TDs, 19.9 yards per reception, and a very good 78.4 PFF rating.

For the 50th time, what Johnson does for some other team is totally irrelevant to what he has proven he can do for our team. We are not guessing at what might happen. We already know what did happen when Johnson played for us.

Honestly, based upon what Palmer has shown so far, I am not sure he will beat the above numbers in any season unless we are talking about a greater opportunity on a second contract with another team. Based upon what the team had to say about him this preseason, I expected much more from Palmer, but his performance so far has lined up with the lack of elite traits that I have observed all along.

We used a third round pick on Palmer, who is doing worse than Johnson, and we cut Johnson. It looks like a pretty boneheaded move so far, though it is still early.

Your methodology is flawed.
Comparing an extrapolated 17 game season, in which Johnson got production because of injury to 13 & 81 at end of season, is absurd.
It is apples to truck tires.

Doing worse than Johnson?
Johnson hadn’t even made the 53 until G4 and will take several more weeks/games before he would surpass 3 receptions.
Using your math Palmer projects to triple Johnson’s reception total.

Johnson has a limited route tree, doesn’t block well, plays no ST, and was a mouthy chirping fool during TC.
These are reasons why he isn’t on the Charger’s roster even with his 4.34 PD (add .08 = 4.42) is fast and he has a third gear but very little explosion off the line.

Lets give this a rest until we get enough data/evidence for a simple comparison.