Former OC Kellen Moore - Discussion

[YAC]

we always think we have a good idea but we are wrong often enough to have to ask if its just luck when we are right?

No doubt our postulations and declarations can go down the sink, and I am certainly conveying merely my opinion. That said, I suggest we can look at the best coaches over the past 3 or 4 decade and see a general template.

I doubt we can list many top NFL head coaches who didn't possess all--or nearly all--of the following:

-Bright with deep football knowledge
-Poised, confident
-High energy (long hours, baby!)
-Articulate w/clarity of communication (teaching skills)
-Persuasive / inspiring
-Assertive

[sonorajim]

Moore has established himself as a quality OC in Dallas. Moving forward it is my hope that he establishes himself as a SB winning OC with the Chargers.
Once that is accomplished I'd like to see him retained as OC but if he chooses to move on, thank you and best wishes.

[dmac_bolt]

No doubt our postulations and declarations can go down the sink, and I am certainly conveying merely my opinion. That said, I suggest we can look at the best coaches over the past 3 or 4 decade and see a general template.

I doubt we can list many top NFL head coaches who didn't possess all--or nearly all--of the following:

-Bright with deep football knowledge
-Poised, confident
-High energy (long hours, baby!)
-Articulate w/clarity of communication (teaching skills)
-Persuasive / inspiring
-Assertive

Thats a good list. I’d add on some more people skills, you hit on parts of it well.

I don’t know if Moore checks all of those boxes, I’ve never seen him pushed forward into that big chair to show us. Some mild mannered guys will step up like a boss, some won’t wilt, and others will blow it up. Beats me - i like what i know of him so far.

[Heatmiser]

Determined
Worker
Intense
Good worker
Hard worker
Terrific

[dmac_bolt]

Determined
Worker
Intense
Good worker
Hard worker
Terrific

[richpjr]

Part of an article I posted in another thread from the Athletic about Moore's offense and the trouble with pass protection:

Less obvious, on a day when the Chargers’ offense turned in its third-best EPA game of the Staley era, were the problems Los Angeles suffered in pass protection during its final drive. Vic Fangio, the Dolphins’ new defensive coordinator, schemed open free rushers on Chargers quarterback Justin Herberttwice at the end of the game, preventing Los Angeles from positioning itself for a go-ahead field goal try.

Though the Chargers delivered on their vow to ramp up their running game under new offensive coordinator Kellen Moore, they were also playing a Fangio defense known for bending against the run in order to limit explosive pass plays. The late-game protection issues hit on a theme some coaches pointed to as a vulnerability when Moore was in Dallas.

“They rushed for 200 yards,” one veteran coach said of the Chargers, “but you can scheme them and get a rusher free against them. Miami overloaded the weak side, and no one came across to block him.”

Two years ago, when the Fangio-coached Denver Broncos upset Moore’s Cowboys 30-16, Fangio crowed about the performance after the game. Fangio’s Broncos had traded star pass-rusher Von Miller days before the game, leading some to suggest Denver was tanking. But the Broncos built a 30-0 lead, and when Dallas scored twice in the final few minutes, Fangio used the term “garbage touchdowns” and then said of Dallas, “Teams just haven’t played them the right way.”

Moore’s Chargers fared far better Sunday. However, Los Angeles finished the game with only four explosive pass gains, their second-lowest total since the start of last season. The Chargers also were the run-heaviest team in the league for Week 1 through Sunday night, according to the Cook Index, which calculates pass frequency on early downs in the first 28 minutes of games, before time remaining and score differential influence play calling.

I'm not sure giving up 34 points and 200+ yards is anything to crow about, but they did catch us in that last series.

Are we going to have trouble with this going forward?

[Kellyb72601]

Moore got run outta town in Dallas because he has problems with game rhythm. It seems he always sticks to his script and doesn't adjust to what is working. Yesterday was a perfect example of both the good and bad of a Kellen Moore offense. 34 points & over 200 yds rushing but you leave kinda feeling the offense came up short. With a Kellen Moore offense there always seems to be multiple times in a game where the offense goes 3 & out because they get away from the rhythm of the obvious and try to get overly cute. Honestly we could have run for 350 yesterday with the way Miami was playing their front. I felt the game was lost on that drive after the JC interception from the 4 yard line Moore comes out and throws the ball 3 times. They got to 3rd and 1, Miami was in a 5 man box - easy run for a 1st down. But no, Moore goes empty and takes a 9 yard sack.

It works both ways. There will be games when the pass offense is really clicking and Moore will come out and inexplicably try to run the football 2 times in a row right up the A gap into an 8 man front.

You will almost never see RB screens from this offense. Dallas had a really good defense so things usually worked out ok. I expect these problems with game rhythm to be magnified by a defense that gives up a lot of points.

The good thing is the offense usually comes up big in big moments....4th and 1, 4th and goal etc. Moore has a lot of special situation plays he sets aside and will only use them in really big moments, and they almost always work.

The offense also tends to function very well in the 2 minute drill. Herbert really screwed us yesterday with that intentional grounding. He could have got out of the pocket first before throwing it away like that. Take that play away and the offense probably marches down the field and puts the game away.

[richpjr]

Moore got run outta town in Dallas because he has problems with game rhythm. It seems he always sticks to his script and doesn't adjust to what is working. Yesterday was a perfect example of both the good and bad of a Kellen Moore offense. 34 points & over 200 yds rushing but you leave kinda feeling the offense came up short. With a Kellen Moore offense there always seems to be multiple times in a game where the offense goes 3 & out because they get away from the rhythm of the obvious and try to get overly cute. Honestly we could have run for 350 yesterday with the way Miami was playing their front. I felt the game was lost on that drive after the JC interception from the 4 yard line Moore comes out and throws the ball 3 times. They got to 3rd and 1, Miami was in a 5 man box - easy run for a 1st down. But no, Moore goes empty and takes a 9 yard sack.

It works both ways. There will be games when the pass offense is really clicking and Moore will come out and inexplicably try to run the football 2 times in a row right up the A gap into an 8 man front.

You will almost never see RB screens from this offense. Dallas had a really good defense so things usually worked out ok. I expect these problems with game rhythm to be magnified by a defense that gives up a lot of points.

The good thing is the offense usually comes up big in big moments....4th and 1, 4th and goal etc. Moore has a lot of special situation plays he sets aside and will only use them in really big moments, and they almost always work.

The offense also tends to function very well in the 2 minute drill. Herbert really screwed us yesterday with that intentional grounding. He could have got out of the pocket first before throwing it away like that. Take that play away and the offense probably marches down the field and puts the game away.

Actually, Moore was fired for "wanting to light up the scoredboard". In McCarthy's own words:

'I've been where Kellen has been: Kellen wants to light the scoreboard up,' McCarthy told reporters.

'But I want to run the damn ball so I can rest my defense. I don't desire to be the No. 1 offense in the league.

'I want to be the No. 1 team in the league with a number of wins and a championship.

'And if we have to give up some production and take care of the ball better to get that, then that's what we'll do.'

Moore, a former Boise State quarterback who spent several seasons as a backup in Detroit and Dallas, has been calling plays for the Cowboys offense since 2019.

Moore had an impressive season in 2022, despite starting quarterback Dak Prescott's thumb injury, which kept him out for five weeks. Dallas ranked 11th in total offense despite a rash of injuries on that side of the football.

[Boltx]

Part of an article I posted in another thread from the Athletic about Moore's offense and the trouble with pass protection:



I'm not sure giving up 34 points and 200+ yards is anything to crow about, but they did catch us in that last series.

Are we going to have trouble with this going forward?

Talk to Cowboys fans - they will tell you that these late game miscues are the norm.

Also, King Checkdown is still a thing.

[Kellyb72601]

Actually, Moore was fired for "wanting to light up the scoredboard". In McCarthy's own words:

Yeah McCarthy said that but it doesn’t at all fit with the stats - Dallas was type 5 or 6 in rushing attempts. I get what he was getting at by saying that though - it’s that game rhythm stuff like yesterday backed up on your own 4 and he throws it 3 times when your rushing attack is working very well. Moore has never had any problem running the ball he just tends to go away from it in tbe worst moments with the worst results

[Tol]

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[NoMoreChillies]

Moore got run outta town in Dallas because he has problems with game rhythm. It seems he always sticks to his script and doesn't adjust to what is working. Yesterday was a perfect example of both the good and bad of a Kellen Moore offense. 34 points & over 200 yds rushing but you leave kinda feeling the offense came up short. With a Kellen Moore offense there always seems to be multiple times in a game where the offense goes 3 & out because they get away from the rhythm of the obvious and try to get overly cute. Honestly we could have run for 350 yesterday with the way Miami was playing their front. I felt the game was lost on that drive after the JC interception from the 4 yard line Moore comes out and throws the ball 3 times. They got to 3rd and 1, Miami was in a 5 man box - easy run for a 1st down. But no, Moore goes empty and takes a 9 yard sack.

It works both ways. There will be games when the pass offense is really clicking and Moore will come out and inexplicably try to run the football 2 times in a row right up the A gap into an 8 man front.

You will almost never see RB screens from this offense. Dallas had a really good defense so things usually worked out ok. I expect these problems with game rhythm to be magnified by a defense that gives up a lot of points.

The good thing is the offense usually comes up big in big moments....4th and 1, 4th and goal etc. Moore has a lot of special situation plays he sets aside and will only use them in really big moments, and they almost always work.

The offense also tends to function very well in the 2 minute drill. Herbert really screwed us yesterday with that intentional grounding. He could have got out of the pocket first before throwing it away like that. Take that play away and the offense probably marches down the field and puts the game away.

Re-watch that play.

Everett is wide open looking for the ball in the vacated blitz zone. Herbert needs to hit this throw to Everett. Its what he gets paid the big bucks for. See the blitz and throw right in behind it. Basic principles