Former OC Kellen Moore - Discussion

[charger1_sj]

Popper brought up the week before that he believed Reich was the exception and the #1 choice hire for OC because of his credentials and experience as a play caller. Otherwise, they were going with someone from the Shanahan/McVay tree because that’s the scheme that Staley believed in. Moore represents an OC whose qualifications was good enough that Staley looked past the fact that he ran a “different” scheme, similar to Reich. Does that make sense?

I don't like the word "scheme". A good coach is a good coach regardless of scheme. In the end it comes down to blocking and tackling. The coach
needs to adopt his so called scheme to the players at hand. The luxury of having players that match your so called scheme like Shanahan has is
rare. Even then you saw that Shanahan wants a running QB to add a different dimension and that has not worked out.

You design plays around the players you have, not the other way around. Lombo was never able to fix our running game, and that became his
downfall as he didn't have all the players he needed to run his "scheme" due to injury.

I am actually happy that we didn't get a Rams guy. If they are scheme dependent I don't want them.

[blueman]

I feel like the Chargers hired the best OC available. And I think he is going to be terrific.

And I think that even if the Chargers have the number one overall offense in points and yards and dominate opponents, someone here will find some statistic that they are lagging in and lament and gnash teeth and rent their garments.

TG

Ws.

[Xenos]

You could say this but why didn't he fire him midway thru this past season? At this point he (Staley) was married to the situation and they (Chargers couldn't find anyone) to take over on such short notice. Might as well ride it out to the bitter conclusion we received in the JAGS loss. There's always a little politics in every equation.

Why didn’t he fire him midway through the season? Because coordinators rarely get fired midway through the season and when it does happen, it rarely works out for a team. It’s just the schematic turmoil it causes as well as the lack of time to adjust the players to the new coordinator. Last time we successfully changed coordinators midway was in 2008. 14 years ago.

[Fouts2herbert]

You could say this but why didn't he fire him midway thru this past season? At this point he (Staley) was married to the situation and they (Chargers couldn't find anyone) to take over on such short notice. Might as well ride it out to the bitter conclusion we received in the JAGS loss. There's always a little politics in every equation.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f41f519...a-01222f034c5e

[beachcomber]

personally suspect, and per usual, that it was a Spanos driven hire....

and not so sure this guy is any huge upgrade from Lombardi, who had us as a top five O @one point, and had to deal w/receivers (minus Keenan) who couldn't separate and a patchwork/fledgling Oline.

hopefully Moore keeps us as a top five O, and.... prolly gonna be a lot more dependent on Herbert's return to health and the availability of our "playmakers"

without Dak, Moore's O was 19th.... it's still on team Tommy John and Stalesco to bring things up to speed, and.... do think we're likely to get back up to 12 wins this season.... it's still about personnel and health.... two things, for the most part, out of Kellen's jurisdiction.

[Fouts2herbert]

Staley initially said he wanted someone from the Shanahan McVay tree because “that’s the offense that I believe in”. Then they jump on KM and hire him in less than 24 hours. Not a Shanahan McVay disciple. What does Staley believe in?

Staley believes in extending his tenure as chargers HC, that’s about the gist of it…he’s going to go along with everything they tell him to do, his a wind vane, he’s going to shift as the winds change, he stands for nothing…he’ll lie to fans in pressers for ownership, pick up helmets for assholes, and suck up like no other former charger HC by pathetically giving game balls to dean, basically the spanii found themselves another TT but this time at the HC position…

I can’t blame either TT or Staley, these guys are taking care of their families financially and there may actually be no other way to work for people like the spanos family…

[ChargersPowderBlue]

Popper brought up the week before that he believed Reich was the exception and the #1 choice hire for OC because of his credentials and experience as a play caller. Otherwise, they were going with someone from the Shanahan/McVay tree because that’s the scheme that Staley believed in. Moore represents an OC whose qualifications was good enough that Staley looked past the fact that he ran a “different” scheme. Similar to the Reich scenario. Does that make sense?

Last year the Chargers and Cowboys practiced together before the preseason meeting. The teams got to know each other from training camp. Staley has faced the Cowboys for 3 years; both as a HC for the Chargers and a DC when he was with the Rams. Staley has seen Moore many times. There's a familiarity factor.

[dmac_bolt]

I don't like the word "scheme". A good coach is a good coach regardless of scheme. In the end it comes down to blocking and tackling. The coach
needs to adopt his so called scheme to the players at hand. The luxury of having players that match your so called scheme like Shanahan has is
rare. Even then you saw that Shanahan wants a running QB to add a different dimension and that has not worked out.

You design plays around the players you have, not the other way around. Lombo was never able to fix our running game, and that became his
downfall as he didn't have all the players he needed to run his "scheme" due to injury.

I am actually happy that we didn't get a Rams guy. If they are scheme dependent I don't want them.

It’s not been proven ANY group of 5 OL starters can execute his rushing blocking schemes. It failed in Detroit and again here - so I’m not convinced he didn’t hate the right guys. As to “it comes down to coaching”, I’d note its much easier to teach a guy to execute a swan dive than to execute the Triple Lindy!

Design does matter - a great design that can’t be implemented in real life is a fail. my lay person eyes tells me that all 5 guys were seldom all on the same page in the exact execution of his blocking assignments. On those rare plays where they all hit their exact spot and assignment at exactly the right time, it worked great. It’s just 5 guys couldn’t do it repeatable. I don’t think changing those 5 would change that most basic problem personally. Two of them were top FAs, two are #1 draft picks, and I personally think Pipkins did a great job last year.

[Xenos]

Staley believes in extending his tenure as chargers HC, that’s about the gist of it…he’s going to go along with everything they tell him to do, his a wind vane, he’s going to shift as the winds change, he stands for nothing…he’ll lie to fans in pressers for ownership, pick up helmets for assholes, and suck up like no other former charger HC by pathetically giving game balls to dean, basically the spanii found themselves another TT but this time at the HC position…

I can’t blame either TT or Staley, these guys are taking care of their families financially and there may actually be no other way to work for people like the spanos family…

Yeah. No to all of the first paragraph. I understand you’re upset about something. But I rather not have a ridiculous rant in this thread.

[Xenos]

personally suspect, and per usual, that it was a Spanos driven hire....

and not so sure this guy is any huge upgrade from Lombardi, who had us as a top five O @one point, and had to deal w/receivers (minus Keenan) who couldn't separate and a patchwork/fledgling Oline.

hopefully Moore keeps us as a top five O, and.... prolly gonna be a lot more dependent on Herbert's return to health and the availability of our "playmakers"

without Dak, Moore's O was 19th.... it's still on team Tommy John and Stalesco to bring things up to speed, and.... do think we're likely to get back up to 12 wins this season.... it's still about personnel and health.... two things, for the most part, out of Kellen's jurisdiction.

How was this a Spanos driven hire? Based on their history, when have they ever told a HC who to keep or hire?

And yes, without Dak, Dallas isn’t going to be as good. Just like we wouldn’t be any good without Herbert.

[charger1_sj]

It’s not been proven ANY group of 5 OL starters can execute his rushing blocking schemes. It failed in Detroit and again here - so I’m not convinced he didn’t hate the right guys. As to “it comes down to coaching”, I’d note its much easier to teach a guy to execute a swan dive than to execute the Triple Lindy!

Design does matter - a great design that can’t be implemented in real life is a fail. my lay person eyes tells me that all 5 guys were seldom all on the same page in the exact execution of his blocking assignments. On those rare plays where they all hit their exact spot and assignment at exactly the right time, it worked great. It’s just 5 guys couldn’t do it repeatable. I don’t think changing those 5 would change that most basic problem personally. Two of them were top FAs, two are #1 draft picks, and I personally think Pipkins did a great job last year.

If they are not on the same page, that is coaching. That's exactly why Lombo failed. The design better fit the players and not the other way around. Our O line guys tend to
larger slower guys. A power blocking scheme incorporating more FB blocking may be a better fit for our personnel. Whatever we do the running game needs improvement.
We don't have to be a top 5 running team. But we'd do well to have more 3rd and 2, instead of 3rd and 7.

[Fouts2herbert]

Yeah. No to all of the first paragraph. I understand you’re upset about something. But I rather not have a ridiculous rant in this thread.

I like the Moore hire, it’s probably one of the smartest moves the Spanos have made in a good long while…as for that being a rant? Considering what I’ve read on these forums I’m not certain that even qualifies…sure I’m out on staley, and I’m also out on bosa, and I’m probably still not over jax, but this hire is definitely a step in the right direction and the only thing giving me a sliver of hope for 2023 and the future with herbert…IMO this move was all about making sure herbert would want to stay longterm with the chargers on contract extension…

It also pleases me to know that if staley can’t get his defense to play at a much higher level, then the chargers have someone that can take over the reigns going forward…I’m not a gambler but I’d almost be wiling to bet that if things continue the same on defense with staley, moore will likely be the ‘next man up’ to coach the chargers…