Offensive Line Discussion

[wu-dai clan]

Wood, PFF begs to differ with you:

The Chargers’ highest-graded offensive lineman, veteran guard Michael Schofield III, has earned just a 63.9 overall grade across 509 offensive snaps this season. Trent Scott and Sam Tevi have been disastrous in pass protection, as has center Mike Pouncey. Scott enters Week 9 ranked inside the bottom-six in pressure percentage allowed at 10.46%. Los Angeles is fortunate they’re getting Russell Okung back from injury, but he won’t solve all of their problems in the trenches.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensi...ankings-week-8

I disagree with PFF's grades on our Oline,
and more importantly,
what we should do moving forward.

SF's offense still worked with both starting OTs out.

Blocking out in space in the running game sets up pass blocking.

As stated, we are better off working on consistency with Feeney and Tevi,
as they show some elements of controlled power when on the move.

Don't like it ? ... talk to Pat Meyer.

Concepts not stats.

[Velo]

I disagree with PFF's grades on our Oline,
and more importantly,
what we should do moving forward.

SF's offense still worked with both starting OTs out.

Blocking out in space in the running game sets up pass blocking.

As stated, we are better off working on consistency with Feeney and Tevi,
as they show some elements of controlled power when on the move.

Don't like it ? ... talk to Pat Meyer.

Concepts not stats.

SF's backup OTs are better than Tevi or Scott.

[wu-dai clan]

SF's backup OTs are better than Tevi or Scott.

Maybe.

I stand by my advanced football take.

Kyle Shanahan essentially beat NE in the SB
running this offense, and with a diminished Ryan Schraeder at ORT.

BUF and Pat Meyer led the NFL in rushing offense two years running with a similar offense,
the one LAC endeavors to run.

Dlines are too good and Olines too deficient these days.

Misdirection plays and dynamic play calling are essential...runs give OLines a fighting chance in pass pro.

Schofield is a stop gap rather than a good scheme fit IMV.

PFFffffttt.

[Midwestbolt]

I disagree with PFF's grades on our Oline,
and more importantly,
what we should do moving forward.

SF's offense still worked with both starting OTs out.

Blocking out in space in the running game sets up pass blocking.

As stated, we are better off working on consistency with Feeney and Tevi,
as they show some elements of controlled power when on the move.

Don't like it ? ... talk to Pat Meyer.

Concepts not stats.

What specifically is your disagreement? What is PFF not taking into account?

At the end of the day, it's either a sack (hit or hurry) or not...correct?

Not dissenting with your take. Just wondering. I've quoted the above from PFF as well.

[Critty]

Pass Block Win Rate
As a team Chargers rank 19th this year.

At Center the Chargers have been very good.
Pouncey ranks 4th
Quessenberry ranks 9th
Chargers have two top 10 centers as far as pass blocking this year.

Targets for off season. NFL experienced veterans.

Andrew Whitworth may be getting old. But he will be a free agent.
He ranks 5th in PBWR for Tackles this year. So the veteran still knows how to provide pass protection.

Jack Conklin - Titans did not pick up his 5th year option, he will be a Free agent.
He ranks 8th in PBWR for tackles this year.

Kelvin Beachum - Jets. He will be a free agent.
He ranks 3rd in PBWR for Tackles this year.

Joe Thuney-G for Patriots will be a free agent.
He ranks 2nd in PBWR for Guards this year.

I am looking for the full list of PBWR. I only found the top 10 at each position.

I would also have Castonzo-OT and Scherff-OG on my list of free agents to go after.

So these are the 6 that I am hoping the Chargers look at.
OT - Whitworth, Conklin, Beachum, Castonzo
OG - Thuney, Scherff.

I would like to see them keep Okung, Pouncey, Lamp, Feeney, Quessenberry, Pipkins, and Tevi

At Center, Pouncey and Quessenberry are solid.
Okung will hopefully be back healthy.
Lamp will hopefully finally get past his injury bug.
Feeney keeps working at getting better.
And Pipkins can develop his talent into a starter over the next couple seasons.
Tevi is still raw. But he was D-lineman that was switched in 2015 to O-line in college. So...this year is his 5th season at the position. 2 in college and 3 in pros. But playing time is the best experience. So at age 25, he should still have upside in his game.

Chargers with some health, development of young guys and bringing in a solid free agent or two or another lineman with a top 100 draft pick......they could go from 19th rank in PBWR this year to a top 10 pass blocking o-line in 2020.

[wu-dai clan]

What specifically is your disagreement? What is PFF not taking into account?

At the end of the day, it's either a sack (hit or hurry) or not...correct?

Not dissenting with your take. Just wondering. I've quoted the above from PFF as well.

More than any other position group,
Oline is a unit.

PFF can isolate and grade the performance of any player,
based upon appearances.

They do not know,
we do not know,
exactly what each Olineman
was supposed to do,
on a specific play.

Defenses do stunts, delayed blitzes,
and throw different looks at Olines.

PFF is notorious for not grading offensive linemen and offensive lines well.

Playcalling, play design, and the score are key components.

I suggest you watch coaches tape of Schofield, other offensive linemen, and offensive lines.

One of the most enlightening things for me,
was doing so re BUF during the years they were at or near the top of the league in running, with Pat Meyer/Anthony Lynn in house.

BTW, I study college offensive linemen for hours on end, year after year, understanding how important this is for us, and attempt to understand good fits for us...and am still frequently off base.

It will always be a work in progress.

Look at our Oline population. Schofield's spot is exactly where an upgrade could be on the front burner.

One other thing...the very players we love to bag on are acrueing valuable experience each week, both individually and alongside others...the whole problem could be MG III's holdout, timing and vision...so many subtles.

Unlike others, I dislike Schofield the player...he could easily be back.

Sorry for the essay...I do not like doing essays, either. LOL.

[Lone Bolt]

More than any other position group,
Oline is a unit.

PFF can isolate and grade the performance of any player,
based upon appearances.

They do not know,
we do not know,
exactly what each Olineman
was supposed to do,
on a specific play.

Defenses do stunts, delayed blitzes,
and throw different looks at Olines.

PFF is notorious for not grading offensive linemen and offensive lines well.

Playcalling, play design, and the score are key components.

I suggest you watch coaches tape of Schofield, other offensive linemen, and offensive lines.

One of the most enlightening things for me,
was doing so re BUF during the years they were at or near the top of the league in running, with Pat Meyer/Anthony Lynn in house.

BTW, I study college offensive linemen for hours on end, year after year, understanding how important this is for us, and attempt to understand good fits for us...and am still frequently off base.

It will always be a work in progress.

Look at our Oline population. Schofield's spot is exactly where an upgrade could be on the front burner.

One other thing...the very players we love to bag on are acrueing valuable experience each week, both individually and alongside others...the whole problem could be MG III's holdout, timing and vision...so many subtles.

Unlike others, I dislike Schofield the player...he could easily be back.

Sorry for the essay...I do not like doing essays, either. LOL.

I know there are a number of issues with our oline, and you would think the players would be the biggest...but I wouldn't mind, if possible, exploring a coaching change. Start off fresh next year, shake things up. Spin it however you want...talent level, injuries, whatever excuses we can dream up...it was an epic fail. Need a fresh start next year, IMO...in many ways.

[wu-dai clan]

I know there are a number of issues with our oline, and you would think the players would be the biggest...but I wouldn't mind, if possible, exploring a coaching change. Start off fresh next year, shake things up. Spin it however you want...talent level, injuries, whatever excuses we can dream up...it was an epic fail. Need a fresh start next year, IMO...in many ways.

I am starting to doubt Pat Meyer too.

But what is the classic TT move ?

Status quo @ Oline--fall in love with an RB, round one.

If he does this, the dude must have vision.

Man, Etienne and Swift, for example, have ridiculous speed to pair up with Ekeler.

There must be some sort of a refresh--our scoring offense is off.

Keep the ideas coming, LB.

[Maniaque 6]

You just can't quit about an OL after 2 or 3 years !
QBerry, Lamp, Feeny and Pipkins deserve a spot.
Okung and Pouncey , if on the field, are a very big +
Need 3 more.

[Midwestbolt]

More than any other position group,
Oline is a unit.

PFF can isolate and grade the performance of any player,
based upon appearances.

They do not know,
we do not know,
exactly what each Olineman
was supposed to do,
on a specific play.

Defenses do stunts, delayed blitzes,
and throw different looks at Olines.

PFF is notorious for not grading offensive linemen and offensive lines well.

Playcalling, play design, and the score are key components.

I suggest you watch coaches tape of Schofield, other offensive linemen, and offensive lines.

One of the most enlightening things for me,
was doing so re BUF during the years they were at or near the top of the league in running, with Pat Meyer/Anthony Lynn in house.

BTW, I study college offensive linemen for hours on end, year after year, understanding how important this is for us, and attempt to understand good fits for us...and am still frequently off base.

It will always be a work in progress.

Look at our Oline population. Schofield's spot is exactly where an upgrade could be on the front burner.

One other thing...the very players we love to bag on are acrueing valuable experience each week, both individually and alongside others...the whole problem could be MG III's holdout, timing and vision...so many subtles.

Unlike others, I dislike Schofield the player...he could easily be back.

Sorry for the essay...I do not like doing essays, either. LOL.

It was a very fine essay tho.

I appreciate hearing where you're coming from and about the time you put in to study it.

Very true not taking blocking assignments into consideration can skew the data. Agree it's a total effort by the oline.

Would yout go as far to say PFF stats are close to useless, or just need to be taken with a grain of salt?

To me, it raised an eyebrow when they label schofield's play as the highest in the group and Pouncy a disaster. I couldn't disagree more, I thought Pouncy's play was far from it and much more solid than Schofields.

[beachcomber]

PFF's Oline grades for pressures allowed tend to be indicative more so than not of NFL success, and....

thank you Critty for reasons to like both Whitworth and Conklin.... two via FA pls.

despite word on the streets that Whitworth is (hot) garbage and has regressed, gonna continue to have him as my placeholder @LT until a solid replacement materializes.... if he can pass block for Philip's blindside, willing to check that box @the expense of some run blocking (sorry Coach Lynn), and.... have little worries 'bout Whitworth's intangibles, and also really like that we in theory could sign him to a similar contract to Philip, far as length of contract (one year.... his wife would just as soon he retires), and they can both retire together, and we are not on the hook for him for any rebuild.

far as Conklin goes, dude seems to have some boy howdy to him as not completely sold/convinced re: his mindset.... what exactly are his shortcomings ?? albeit again not sold on our options @RT atm, and would prefer a vet standing in for the duration of Philip's likely swan song.... if by chance (my sense/gut tells me he will retire) Okung suits up for next season, we could pencil him in @RT, as not willing to ride that rodeo (again @LT) given his injury history and health concerns of late.... otherwise we are looking @Pip and/or Tevi…. Phil deserves better than another developmental starter @RT for his final go 'round and best shot @the ever so elusive SB 55, and not sure Tevi wouldn't be better served by moving inside, not to mention he might be on the bubble after all is said and done on the Oline for next season ??

not sold on the others mentioned for FA, albeit do def want coupon Tom to spend wisely and in a most timely fashion in FA, anotherwords…. waste not, want not.

[beachcomber]

and 'Cat.... one via the draft pls,

firmly convinced that the both of Andrew Thomas and Tristan Wirfs (if he even declares) will be well off the board (in the late teens) where we'll likely end up drafting.... not sold on any of the name Pac 12 guys, and also wary of the Alabama two.... the late first rounders/day two prospects are also less than inspiring, save for Trey Smith (@least by my estimation), as don't think there is any question 'bout his talent, as the concern is ironically enough 'bout his own case of pulmonary embolism.... otherwise see him as a (very) solid, and someone we might have Marcus McNeill like success by drafting him day/round two ?? he can also play inside or out.... he's where I'd throw my lot in the draft, and after (well) securing my starters in FA.

otherwise, don't see Lamp leaving, nor Qberry…. not sure if our FO didn't get hoodwinked w/the Pouncey signing, but will hope for the best there, and.... personally am disappointed/confused re: Feeney, as would really like to see what he can do @RG, and really wish he would live up to his draft billing, as again personally had him as high as top ten in the draft @one juncture.... think Scho is likely a contract casualty, and wonder if Tevi isn't at a tipping point (as well) ??

LT * Whitworth
LG * Lamp, Trey Smith (both would serve as backup LTs as well ?)
OC * Pouncey, Qberry
RG * Feeney, Tevi
RT * Conklin, Pip