Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[Velo]

I have no problem with some of the, what I believe, well deserved criticism of Lynn no doubt. My issue is with this very one-sided affair that completely ignores the positives that should also be gained here. WR position actually has some depth now with a wide range of varying skill sets to use.

Did you know the Chargers actually practice and design those off script plays for Herbert as well? Nice move, especially considering the uneven pass protection at times. Steichen no doubt makes some questionable calls! Overall though, this offense has exceeded my expectations considering the lost of Ekeler, the injuries to Keenan and Williams, the heavy use of mostly unproven RBs, and offensive line injuries and uneven play.

I am encouraged overall with the offensive side of the ball, although I would still like to see both situational play calling improvements and better clock management at the end of halves.

Steichen has been an OC for little more than a season, there is definitely room for growth, he is still learning but I think he's doing well and has a good future. I really don't want to break him up from Herbert.

I read in the LA Times...either Ty John or Jay Guy said that both of them and Herbert were very familiar with each other going into the season because they were all doing second team reps in TC. Herbert had been throwing to these guys all summer. And now it's paying off.

[Topcat]

Please help me out if I am wrong here.. I have never seen where a QB has an unexpected jump in overall production and effectiveness that is historic as a rookie QB and the coaches get absolutely no credit for it. This is also during a very shortened off-season where Herbert has developed well beyond most expectations and yet the coaching staff still gets not even partial credit for this development.

The QB position is so different than many other positions, even outside the NFL where very talented QBs are drafted every year, but not all develop as hoped because they are so dependent on the culture and systems in place to flourish early on. With the offensive line issues or the RB by committee of mostly unproven RBs running behind a very suspect line, I am curious as to why this is rarely ever mentioned on the national stage. I am losing faith that we are even getting a fair and comprehensive view and assessment of this team.

I don’t know if this coaching staff is the long term solution or not, but for this coaching staff to consistently get so roasted when coaches like Gruden has not even had a winning season since taking over the Raiders for a second time three seasons ago now, including two consecutive meltdowns at the back end of the past two seasons.

With the loss of Whiz and Rivers, the Chargers loss much experience and this has certainly played out with clock management issues no doubt, but overall, I really like the direction of this team if the offensive line can become at least middle of the pack, versus consistently ranked near the bottom the past several seasons, which makes in exceedingly tough to win.

I think Lynn, Steichen, and Herbert are getting better at managing late game situations, but if the Chargers do move on from Lynn and Steichen, my mind will not allow to not at least give this offensive coaching staff partial credit for the development of Herbert, which has been huge and very much needed for this franchise!

It may be that Herbie's crazy high talent level, along with Pep Hamilton's coaching, get most of the credit here. Maybe Stitch gets some credit. Lynn is pretty busy coaching the whole team, and if you're going to give credit to him for Herbie's rise, also need to give him credit (or the blame) for poor game planning and management.

[BoltUp InLA]

It may be that Herbie's crazy high talent level, along with Pep Hamilton's coaching, get most of the credit here. Maybe Stitch gets some credit. Lynn is pretty busy coaching the whole team, and if you're going to give credit to him for Herbie's rise, also need to give him credit (or the blame) for poor game planning and management.

It hurts my sports sensibilities to think that a QB comes into the league with even play at times in college and blows up is ONLY due to his high end talent. Sam Darnold has high end talent also by the way. My argument is that culture and system fit also makes a difference. It’s funny y how quickly some point to the limited offense that he played in at Oregon for not showing more in college, but then completely dismiss that perhaps culture and being in a nice fit offense is partially the reason for Herbert’s unexpected fast rise in the NFL.

PFF also shows me that Herbert is not yet in the same league as Rogers, who I believe is the best QB I have ever seen play, Mahomes, Watson, Allen, and Wilson. Not even close really. If you take your eyes a minute away from the seemingly routine splash plays that Herbert makes, you will see occasional missed open receivers and errant throw and tough catches by our receivers at times also.

Herbert’s ceiling is incredible, which is why I liked Herbert coming out, but there was some issues also, which he has improved on and will still need to improve upon. The Chargers pass at a very high clip, so it is puzzling to sometimes hear that others believe he should pass even more under a suspect line?? The last thing you need is to become overly one-dimensional the entire game I would think.

[Xenos]

I have no problem with some of the, what I believe, well deserved criticism of Lynn no doubt. My issue is with this very one-sided affair that completely ignores the positives that should also be gained here. WR position actually has some depth now with a wide range of varying skill sets to use.

Did you know the Chargers actually practice and design those off script plays for Herbert as well? Nice move, especially considering the uneven pass protection at times. Steichen no doubt makes some questionable calls! Overall though, this offense has exceeded my expectations considering the lost of Ekeler, the injuries to Keenan and Williams, the heavy use of mostly unproven RBs, and offensive line injuries and uneven play.

I am encouraged overall with the offensive side of the ball, although I would still like to see both situational play calling improvements and better clock management at the end of halves.

I liked Lynn a lot and do credit him and the staff for what they did to develop Herbert. But that’s not enough to offset their many failings in other areas of the team. Lynn is just also too conservative as a HC and at a certain point, he’s hindering Herbert’s future potential. I’ll post an article when I have time but it was the same issue with O’Brien and Watson.

[Xenos]

It hurts my sports sensibilities to think that a QB comes into the league with even play at times in college and blows up is ONLY due to his high end talent. Sam Darnold has high end talent also by the way. My argument is that culture and system fit also makes a difference. It’s funny y how quickly some point to the limited offense that he played in at Oregon for not showing more in college, but then completely dismiss that perhaps culture and being in a nice fit offense is partially the reason for Herbert’s unexpected fast rise in the NFL.

PFF also shows me that Herbert is not yet in the same league as Rogers, who I believe is the best QB I have ever seen play, Mahomes, Watson, Allen, and Wilson. Not even close really. If you take your eyes a minute away from the seemingly routine splash plays that Herbert makes, you will see occasional missed open receivers and errant throw and tough catches by our receivers at times also.

Herbert’s ceiling is incredible, which is why I liked Herbert coming out, but there was some issues also, which he has improved on and will still need to improve upon. The Chargers pass at a very high clip, so it is puzzling to sometimes hear that others believe he should pass even more under a suspect line?? The last thing you need is to become overly one-dimensional the entire game I would think.

If we want to keep Herbert in the same offensive system so there’s continuity , we should try to get someone from the Shanahan tree as OC or even HC.

Edit: it’s not necessarily about passing more. It’s when to pass. Maybe you don’t need to run it so much on 1st and 2nd down.

[21&500]

Please help me out if I am wrong here.. I have never seen where a QB has an unexpected jump in overall production and effectiveness that is historic as a rookie QB and the coaches get absolutely no credit for it. This is also during a very shortened off-season where Herbert has developed well beyond most expectations and yet the coaching staff still gets not even partial credit for this development.

The QB position is so different than many other positions, even outside the NFL where very talented QBs are drafted every year, but not all develop as hoped because they are so dependent on the culture and systems in place to flourish early on. With the offensive line issues or the RB by committee of mostly unproven RBs running behind a very suspect line, I am curious as to why this is rarely ever mentioned on the national stage. I am losing faith that we are even getting a fair and comprehensive view and assessment of this team.

I don’t know if this coaching staff is the long term solution or not, but for this coaching staff to consistently get so roasted when coaches like Gruden has not even had a winning season since taking over the Raiders for a second time three seasons ago now, including two consecutive meltdowns at the back end of the past two seasons.

With the loss of Whiz and Rivers, the Chargers loss much experience and this has certainly played out with clock management issues no doubt, but overall, I really like the direction of this team if the offensive line can become at least middle of the pack, versus consistently ranked near the bottom the past several seasons, which makes in exceedingly tough to win.

I think Lynn, Steichen, and Herbert are getting better at managing late game situations, but if the Chargers do move on from Lynn and Steichen, my mind will not allow to not at least give this offensive coaching staff partial credit for the development of Herbert, which has been huge and very much needed for this franchise!

you’ve never seen it because this is a VERY unique circumstance we’re in, imo that logic alone isn’t enough to give Lynn some ambiguous de facto credit.
Imo we’re in a situation where we have an elite talent at qb with the maturity of a 10 year veteran AND a bottom 2 head coach, unique indeed.
I credit Herbert’s favorite elementary school teacher for Herbs development more than Lynn.

It’s not just Herbert’s talents that have helped him thrive, it’s his mentality and desire to improve
its special, he is special
Pep gets credit, the coach he worked with after the draft (name escapes me, Beck?) but how much credit do you want to give Lynn?
Herbert showed up week 2, was that because of Lynns culture? Lynn individual attention? Lynn the qb whisperer?
like Aikmen said, and any have pointed out, if it was up to Lynn, Herbert would be backing Tyrod up today.
Imo Lynn gets no credit other than being associated with Herbert
the only credit I can give Lynn for Herbert’s development is accidental perhaps, his failure to treat herbert fairly in the workplace with regard to job competition has perhaps motivated Herbert beyond what he normally would have, maybe, but even then I’d say Herbert hasn’t given a shit about what his bad headcoach has done, he knew he would eventually get his chance to show out.

Side note, but important
I get we’re on a win streak and people want to convince themselves that Lynn has been given an unfair chance.
psychologically we want to protect ourselves in case of the very real chance that he is retained.
but I encourage you all to be bold and call a duck a duck, he’s had his chances, more than enough information is in, if Lynn is retained, it only helps Lynn and Spanos wallet. Oh and Andy Reid will rejoice as he knows Herbert is the only real threat to the division.

We will continue to lose close games at a historic rate, find something else to blame besides the obvious (Lynn), be one of the fastest to be mathematically eliminated and win the rest of the meaningless games.
we will all be in the same boat this Christmas time next year, debating whether Lynn just needed a little more luck to do his job. Again, this isn’t even about losing, it’s his contributions, a HC should be an asset, not a liability. Speaking for myself, I’ve seen more than enough, I don’t see the need for continued posts in this or the Rivers thread.
Lynn should be replaced, Hope Rivers wins his first.

Merry Christmas, one of us is getting what we want on black Monday

[Topcat]

you’ve never seen it because this is a VERY unique circumstance we’re in, imo that logic alone isn’t enough to give Lynn some ambiguous de facto credit.
Imo we’re in a situation where we have an elite talent at qb with the maturity of a 10 year veteran AND a bottom 2 head coach, unique indeed.
I credit Herbert’s favorite elementary school teacher for Herbs development more than Lynn.

It’s not just Herbert’s talents that have helped him thrive, it’s his mentality and desire to improve
its special, he is special
Pep gets credit, the coach he worked with after the draft (name escapes me, Beck?) but how much credit do you want to give Lynn?
Herbert showed up week 2, was that because of Lynns culture? Lynn individual attention? Lynn the qb whisperer?
like Aikmen said, and any have pointed out, if it was up to Lynn, Herbert would be backing Tyrod up today.
Imo Lynn gets no credit other than being associated with Herbert
the only credit I can give Lynn for Herbert’s development is accidental perhaps, his failure to treat herbert fairly in the workplace with regard to job competition has perhaps motivated Herbert beyond what he normally would have, maybe, but even then I’d say Herbert hasn’t given a shit about what his bad headcoach has done, he knew he would eventually get his chance to show out.

Side note, but important
I get we’re on a win streak and people want to convince themselves that Lynn has been given an unfair chance.
psychologically we want to protect ourselves in case of the very real chance that he is retained.
but I encourage you all to be bold and call a duck a duck, he’s had his chances, more than enough information is in, if Lynn is retained, it only helps Lynn and Spanos wallet. Oh and Andy Reid will rejoice as he knows Herbert is the only real threat to the division.

We will continue to lose close games at a historic rate, find something else to blame besides the obvious (Lynn), be one of the fastest to be mathematically eliminated and win the rest of the meaningless games.
we will all be in the same boat this Christmas time next year, debating whether Lynn just needed a little more luck to do his job. Again, this isn’t even about losing, it’s his contributions, a HC should be an asset, not a liability. Speaking for myself, I’ve seen more than enough, I don’t see the need for continued posts in this or the Rivers thread.
Lynn should be replaced, Hope Rivers wins his first.

Merry Christmas, one of us is getting what we want on black Monday

Interesting point there, 21. We know Lynn wasn't too high on Herbie when he said, "he's a backup for a reason." Wow, way to boost your QB's confidence, Coach! And it may very well be, as you theorize, that Herbie is playing lights out, at least in part, to prove Lynn wrong and keep the starting job. I once knew a guy who got into teaching because he saw a bad teacher and said, "I can do better than this!" The irony here is that Herbie may play so well that he saves Lynn for another season...ugh...

[21&500]

Interesting point there, 21. We know Lynn wasn't too high on Herbie when he said, "he's a backup for a reason." Wow, way to boost your QB's confidence, Coach! And it may very well be, as you theorize, that Herbie is playing lights out, at least in part, to prove Lynn wrong and keep the starting job. I once knew a guy who got into teaching because he saw a bad teacher and said, "I can do better than this!" The irony here is that Herbie may play so well that he saves Lynn for another season...ugh...

Lynn is secretly a master motivator
we are all too simple to understand the methods
I imagine troy palumalo's biological dad sitting at a bar claiming to have molded tory into a HOFer by abandoning the family thus sparking the adversity needed to forge the fire
Haha

[boldarblood]

Lynn is secretly a master motivator
we are all too simple to understand the methods
I imagine troy palumalo's biological dad sitting at a bar claiming to have molded tory into a HOFer by abandoning the family thus sparking the adversity needed to forge the fire
Haha

13 year old me from 35 years ago insists I go childish. So what you are telling us is that Lynn is the... Master-Vator..

[BoltUp InLA]

you’ve never seen it because this is a VERY unique circumstance we’re in, imo that logic alone isn’t enough to give Lynn some ambiguous de facto credit.
Imo we’re in a situation where we have an elite talent at qb with the maturity of a 10 year veteran AND a bottom 2 head coach, unique indeed.
I credit Herbert’s favorite elementary school teacher for Herbs development more than Lynn.

It’s not just Herbert’s talents that have helped him thrive, it’s his mentality and desire to improve
its special, he is special
Pep gets credit, the coach he worked with after the draft (name escapes me, Beck?) but how much credit do you want to give Lynn?
Herbert showed up week 2, was that because of Lynns culture? Lynn individual attention? Lynn the qb whisperer?
like Aikmen said, and any have pointed out, if it was up to Lynn, Herbert would be backing Tyrod up today.
Imo Lynn gets no credit other than being associated with Herbert
the only credit I can give Lynn for Herbert’s development is accidental perhaps, his failure to treat herbert fairly in the workplace with regard to job competition has perhaps motivated Herbert beyond what he normally would have, maybe, but even then I’d say Herbert hasn’t given a shit about what his bad headcoach has done, he knew he would eventually get his chance to show out.

Side note, but important
I get we’re on a win streak and people want to convince themselves that Lynn has been given an unfair chance.
psychologically we want to protect ourselves in case of the very real chance that he is retained.
but I encourage you all to be bold and call a duck a duck, he’s had his chances, more than enough information is in, if Lynn is retained, it only helps Lynn and Spanos wallet. Oh and Andy Reid will rejoice as he knows Herbert is the only real threat to the division.

We will continue to lose close games at a historic rate, find something else to blame besides the obvious (Lynn), be one of the fastest to be mathematically eliminated and win the rest of the meaningless games.
we will all be in the same boat this Christmas time next year, debating whether Lynn just needed a little more luck to do his job. Again, this isn’t even about losing, it’s his contributions, a HC should be an asset, not a liability. Speaking for myself, I’ve seen more than enough, I don’t see the need for continued posts in this or the Rivers thread.
Lynn should be replaced, Hope Rivers wins his first.

Merry Christmas, one of us is getting what we want on black Monday

My argument here really has nothing to do with retaining the coaching staff.. It has to do with the offensive success in my mind anyway with regards to NFL ranking in some key categories when the offensive line has been uneven at best. Even with the lost of Ekeler and various injuries to Allen and Williams, this offense has for the most part exceeded my expectations when considering all these factors. And with all that said, Steichen is mostly criticized, which makes absolutely no sense to me. This is separating out the negatives from the positives. There can certainly be positives had from this season for sure! I like balance I guess.. or at least a comprehensive view.

[21&500]

13 year old me from 35 years ago insists I go childish. So what you are telling us is that Lynn is the... Master-Vator..

Jerkoff jokes are ageless
cheers

[Critty]

Failure to treat him fairly in the workplace?!??

:idby:

That a false narrative. Lynn said after draft, that in camp and pre season Herbert would compete for the job. Then it got cancelled because of covid. He started the veteran. The vet went to IR. The rest is history. Lynn comments after losses like he's a backup for a reason should be taken with a grain of salt because Lynn is upset and being salty. Justin knows what going on. He's feeling ain't hurt by what Lynn says after a loss. Plus the coach also said he loved Justin. And he has everything you want for a franchise QB. He has said plenty of positive things about the kid.