2020 Draft Prospect Discussion

[C'monchargers]

Great analysis, Cmon. In addition to your points, I will also add that Herbert tries frequently to force that hard rock into tight windows, as u mention, but does so repeatedly--usually for incompletions, but sometimes his accuracy is off on a lot of those throws, and they bounce off helmets, shoulder pads, etc. This translates to a lot of picks by saavy NFL safeties and CB's...so Herbert is a kind of boom or bust QB...boom, when he makes a beautiful throw for a TD or a long gainer, but bust when he forces the rock into coverage for incompletes, bouncies and picks...the question is, can he learn touch? Can he learn not to force the rock into certain tight windows? Or will his old habits come creeping back time and again to haunt him? Too much of a question mark for me...

I think he can learn touch, I mean at least more. He needs roll his shoulder to add some torque to his spins. Somebody mentions big hands and yes they are kind of a big deal. Not that he can't add more finesse but can he change his mindset to a more finesse mind set. And still trust his fastball to a certain extend. Maybe he will be forced to read more and thoroughly and that will help him stop telegraphing. Plus his release might benefit from his might be improvement so it rolls out quicker, not faster. If he can throw the ball as he sees with ease, that will help his cause big time.

Speaking of throwing quick as they see it, I think Jacob Eason would be one that comes to mind. Watching him play, not even trying to break down his play; the first impression is that he is always on time. He has very good QB mechanics, he has a quick release that can fire the moment he needs to; that gives him a very buyable pump fakes which he does use very well. Also, his read is quick and mostly good reads. He comes off as very decisive when he plays and he doesn'tmake too many bad decisions. He does occasionally have a few hero play here and there but he does a good job in not letting the ball go into situations where you say, why you even do that? To a certain extend you can usually rations his mistakes. That's not the worst thing in the world, at least he got his helmet head screw on right. But when his bad play happens, usually because he reads and he acts, some of them is not the worse read just not thorough enough. IMO the combination of him having above average QB mechanics (footwork, pumps, sufficient arm strength, etc), quick in reading coverage and finding opening plus making good risk vs reward decisions gives off the impression that the game is not too fast for him. And being pro ready is not too far away for him. I slot him next to Tua in pro ready prospect right behind burrow and follow by Jalen Hurts. Speaking of Jalen Hurts, I am going to go out of a limp and say he will surprise some people.

Going back to Eason, he has imo just as big of an arm as Justin Herbert to the eye; but he has way more than just the fastball under his tool belt. Especially his high lobbing corning route dips, it is exciting to see. When you play catch with somebody, its no fun when the other guy is trying to drill you dead in the chest everytime, you want variety. "let me run this way and hit me on the run" "Go deep" and whats the first thing you think when you try to go deep? You aim it high to lob it; So why would that basic principal change when you play catch with pros? As a receiver, you appreciate that too, you can adjust easier on your speed to get under the ball to let it drop in instead of breaking my run and turn around and really focusing on securing a fastball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWQbtw7RO1o

Here is him against Oregon, a pretty good football team. Even against them he just doesn't seems rushed, didn't get bait into anything early in the read. When you see something on the screen open, the ball is already going there most of the time. That's what i am talking about him being on time. But mind you, we have the whole screen and he is reading in the game as it goes; so in reality, he is read it pretty quickly and well.

1:45 - here is his "Go Deep", look at how high it goes and how much it clears the corner trailing behind. Not too flat, no chance the CB would have a play on that one.

3:23 - Back shoulder throw right outside the numbers. Its an anticipation throw, ball comes out right when the Nickle is beaten. Timing is good and the ball is high and dropping in away from the nickle. His point A to point B is great. I have seen Herbert making the same throw, read the same way and throw at the same time, but Herbert's A to B would be much faster and flater. Which i also see the receiver having to lay out for a great play to get a completion, comparing the 2; Eason's A to B is much more sustainable than Herbert's A to B.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q5Xz7lfPx0

Not a big fan of using highlight to eval QB but just want to show the quality of his passes his A to B's

3:13 and 4:33 - are good example of his "Go Deep" has a very very good stable flight and comes dipping in

0:10, 1:00, 3:03, 4:24, 5:00, 5:40 - Look at these outside the number throws. Comes out early, on time and comes dipping in with the nose diving into the spot. That's the kind of throw you want to see in those situation. You can see the RPM on those balls spinning and glide. That is a ball that receiver can adjust and go get.

Jacob Eason's game is definitely is more refined than Herbert and Jordan Love alike. I have a feeling he can be even more accurate if he leads his throw more with his elbow and really separate the shoulder and hip. Plus, his system is good, he has play under center on the regular. Not too many other prospect can say that, that would add to his ability to transition his game to the NFL.

[C'monchargers]

I appreciate the post by our newest member C'monchargers. I told people several weeks ago that Herbert is too inaccurate and I'm a Ducks fan. He had receivers this season that dropped more passes than they caught and I think it was because of how hard he throws. Do any of you remember Ed Luther? He had the big arm but he never learned to put some air under it. I'm guessing Herbert is going to be like that. I hope I'm wrong and he will learn because he's a really fine young man but I hope the Bolts don't use their first pick on him.

Thinking about the offense that our HC wants to run, I won't be shocked if we take Hurts. I won't be happy but he does seem to be the kind of QB that AL covets.
As for me, I'm still wishing they'd get Teddy as a FA and use that first pick for the best OT they can get in the draft.

Thanks! Roo. I just recognized the name haha. Yeah Herbert can become inaccurate when he is not allow to go through the motion or aligned

[jamrock]

I appreciate the post by our newest member C'monchargers. I told people several weeks ago that Herbert is too inaccurate and I'm a Ducks fan. He had receivers this season that dropped more passes than they caught and I think it was because of how hard he throws. Do any of you remember Ed Luther? He had the big arm but he never learned to put some air under it. I'm guessing Herbert is going to be like that. I hope I'm wrong and he will learn because he's a really fine young man but I hope the Bolts don't use their first pick on him.

Thinking about the offense that our HC wants to run, I won't be shocked if we take Hurts. I won't be happy but he does seem to be the kind of QB that AL covets.
As for me, I'm still wishing they'd get Teddy as a FA and use that first pick for the best OT they can get in the draft.

I’d rather they get Teddy or roll with Tyrod than draft Hurts. Like you say get OL, a defensive stud and speed at WR with the picks 1-3

[Boltjolt]

I appreciate the post by our newest member C'monchargers. I told people several weeks ago that Herbert is too inaccurate and I'm a Ducks fan. He had receivers this season that dropped more passes than they caught and I think it was because of how hard he throws. Do any of you remember Ed Luther? He had the big arm but he never learned to put some air under it. I'm guessing Herbert is going to be like that. I hope I'm wrong and he will learn because he's a really fine young man but I hope the Bolts don't use their first pick on him.

Thinking about the offense that our HC wants to run, I won't be shocked if we take Hurts. I won't be happy but he does seem to be the kind of QB that AL covets.
As for me, I'm still wishing they'd get Teddy as a FA and use that first pick for the best OT they can get in the draft.

Agree and I've also said he isn't real accurate over 10 yards. His completion % was good this season but most of his passes are less than 5 yards.

[C'monchargers]

I’d rather they get Teddy or roll with Tyrod than draft Hurts. Like you say get OL, a defensive stud and speed at WR with the picks 1-3

Hurts has quietly put up a really good season. When you watch him he definitely gives the impression of a man on a mission. Without going into Hurts too much, peep's eyes are probably hurting reading my posts; just watching his receivers highlights will give you an idea of how his game is. Those WR highlights usually shows all the hard tough catches that show case their skills.

Here is Ceedee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eNIYgon03c

2:26 - There is one throw I like to point out is this one. A wheel route from Ceedee that went the distance. Hurts go through his progression and hit Ceedee on the run. This to me is quite impressive consider the timing Hurts hitting Ceedee on top of the route without slowing down. No sure if the Wheel route was his go to all along and he is just looking off or it is a true 3rd option play; but the ability to see and hit it with a little extra speed to fit the window and leading Ceedee into the run is very impressive. If Chargers do re-sign Ekeler, he for sure will run a few wheel routes.


Here is Rambo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaST8RJUVaM&t=2s


When you watch those video, you can tell those passes are nicely thrown.

Hurts pocket awareness is a little better than average right now. When you watch his older tapes compare to his most recent ones, you can tell he has work on his feet and trying to be a QB. He is a student of the game. Also, he is exceptionally strong and he can deliver the ball at different angle, Side arm, over the top, inside out; in the pocket or on the go.

[blueman]

Hurts has been the QB I want more than any of them, and we should have a legit shot at him at #37. I’m gonna be surprised if he doesn’t succeed mightily in the NFL.

[PR#1]

Speaking of prospects, IMO In a bubble Justin Herbert has a lot of eye candies and in certain setting he is going to look very good. He is going to win some hearts during the combine and proday. Justin Herbert needs the perfect pocket, the right play call, the perfect timing to make things happen. As "strong" as his arm is, his yardage this year rank only barely within top 20 just above Jordan Love. Even the other JH, Jalen Hurts who had rushed for 20 TD this year rank within top 10 who attempted 80 less passes and completed 50 less and almost 400 more yards. So what was it? Was it the talent around him or was it the system's fault?

Justin Herbert has one and one only favorite throw - "the Fastball". Not that he is completely incapable of other throws; he has done it from time to time, not greatly but.... he did it. Is that, in the priority chart, his trust in his Fastball is on the top of that list. To a point where, his thought process, his timing and delivery is structure around the idea of "how do I get this fastball in", his game suffer from the inherit issue with his fastball#1 approach.

His throwing style is more or less like a pitcher, he has this big pull back and a fast whipping motion in delivery. His passes tend to come in hot,very hot. Not only receiver has to often adjust to really secure the ball before they can start making moves, not ideal for YAC. Also the window of success for his kind of throw is very small. Unless the target is wide open and he is allow to step up and drills him, if it is a timing or anticipation throw, his passes usually travel through the window very fast. That really narrows the margin of error when the pass has to be accurate and target is in place to secure the heat; not a very convincing recipe for success. And because he generates the momentum of his throw in a back and fore motion instead of a rotational motion, if he isn't allow to set his balance and his motion is interrupted, he loses a bit control.

Also his passes are very flat with relatively less spin. When a football is flying in the air, the spin gives the flight stability. When a ball is spinning faster, the inertia stabilize the center of mass and gives it a control flight. It might not be as fast but much more stable and come down steeper on entry, handy in beating underneath coverage, especially in deep ball situation. Also the more stable flight gives receivers a better idea of where the ball is going so they can adjust to the ball. As compare to a ball that fly fast and flat, relying more on the velocity to control the flight; it can knuckle a little bit when not throw perfectly or hurried. , because of how flat the passes are, when miss throwing deep or on the throwing on the back foot, it tends to sail. And when release too flat or trying to hit a target moving away, it tends dives short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWPx2kL6mxo

This is a game of his playing against Cal. a decent team that is not over powering or under matched so it has a little bit of everything on there.

First play of the, coverage was aggressive and he threw a dart toward coverage, at first you say "maybe this is heads up play and draw a PI?" Or was he really trying to fit that window. Then you see he throw this exact pass again and again in the game. A low, flat fastball that into underneath coverage, then you say hmmm soooo, what's up?

Next play, again, fastball over the middle, this time int. This is not the only time that Herbet's trust in his fastball override his decision making. He believed his dart can pierce the coverage and into an improbably small window that nobody else would willing to risk. That is not a read problem, that is a tendency problem. He might have gotten away with it like in games against Colorado but this time they make him pay. He was appear late on his delivery is #1 he needs to set up and align; #2 is he knows how fast his fastball is and if he lets go too soon, its going to fly right by the window. Even if he reads the play correct, he still can't let go until the time is right, then he caught staring. That's an example of how his fastball thinking effect his overall play.

Then the next few plays they give him some easy dump offs and clean pocket to read and get it out fast. That's when he look best, when things are under control. But in the NFL, you rarely have that kind of luxury to be in control all the time.

1:38 - Great shoelace catch from the receiver. But the throw itself, when you throw as flat a he does, when a receiver is moving away from him and if the ball doesn't catch up to the target quick enough, it going to dive.

1:59 - Standing still in the pocket read and read, doesn't give the pressure a thought. That's the luxury he has this season is that he plays with a pretty clean pocket for the most part and it is not in his process of thought to look out for the pressure from the A gap. His pocket awareness is subpar, matter of fact besides Burrow and Hurts most other QB in this class are subpar in pocket awareness IMO.

Next few is just perfect pocket and target practice, too easy.

3:19 - Rolls out to buy time, sees the opening pulls the ball back and whips it flat deep. When the ball is coming this fast and flat, it zip in and out of the window of success in a flash, if the atrget is a step slow or the ball is thrown a little off, the ball can be yards apart. And when he leans back, it usually sails, that is the same problem Cam Newton always have and it is not easy to change.

3:40 - WR starts out inside, pass the CB and beat him in a foot race on a post. That should be an anticipation throw. That should be a high arching pass toward the endzone just outside the number that is thrown right before the CB turn his hip, instead of a target practice i see i throw play where it is too far and too fast for the WR to read and catch up. The placement was great but from way the ball gets point A to point B isn't great.

3:55 - ball dives on another target moving away from him.

4:03 - he was hurried on this throw, that motion and balance got interrupted; ball miss toward to direction he leans.

4:14 - he was hit but not hurried, stand tall and delivered. As long as his delivery process is not interrupted and remain balance he can do it. Again in NFL, just how often you get that?? and to get that in NFL is not cheap.

4:38 - pocket collapse, feet not set and not in balance, knuckles a 10 yard dump off.

5:40 - an ill advised low fast ball into triple coverage. To him that is a window his fastball can fit, but lets be frank and say that is a bad concept. The ball was thrown so fast and so low, it was a miracle it when pass the underneath coverage without being tipped and way to difficult of a ball for the target to have a chance on that one. Only Herbert looked "good" there big man throwing big rocks.

6:03 - Here it is again, it is reckless to try to squeeze a fastball that low on a slant coming across with underneath coverage has the inside leverage. First one you saw, ok maybe a heads up play to draw a penalty. Second time is like uh, that didn't look that good and 3rd time just kind of makes you think, maybe that's just how he sees the game. His risk assessment is dictated by his trust in his fastball.

6:36 - That's where his money is made, clean pocket and a zippy pass into the pocket of a zone. He knows where the ball was going to go right off the get go, so he wait and watch until that window opens and fires it. If he didn't throw such a hot pass, he will for sure be paying a price telegraphing. Carson Wentz has a problem in telegraphing and was called out by the seahawks before. Teams are so fast to pick things up it would be a surprise he would be picked up on even before the half ends.


7:36 - That pass should be thrown with more touch, its becoming a common theme that Herbert needs to put more finesse in his game. That ball went so fast out of the window of success that the receiver didn't even have a chance to make a play on.


All and all, you see some things he does well when everything is going well and accordingly when the balance and timing is not disrupted. But you also see what you might get if things aren't going as well. So at this point, for him to succeed, it takes a village. The line, the target that can make separation and he is not ask to beat peeps deep in tight coverage. Lets just say, its all there and he performs, how are you going to keep that up when he signs his big contract? In this day and age when QB is making as much as they did and holdup that much of cap space, it is going to be tough to beef up the line and still retain the other parts of the team. Then players walk for bigger contract. Then you build through draft, and when this group of the young player in their rookie contract start playing up, then you can compete again. So logically you would think his window to win a superbowl would be during his rookie contract or his twilight years. Lets just say Herbert isn't taking nobody to the superbowl right now.

Therefore, in the day and age you need a QB there can play very well on the go and throw on the run. So that you can afford to blow the load on protection and still spend on free agent to remain competitive.

Great post, thanks for the info. I live on the east coast so I haven't seen alot of Herbert. Good stuff there.

[Guest]

Speaking of prospects, IMO In a bubble Justin Herbert has a lot of eye candies and in certain setting he is going to look very good. He is going to win some hearts during the combine and proday. Justin Herbert needs the perfect pocket, the right play call, the perfect timing to make things happen. As "strong" as his arm is, his yardage this year rank only barely within top 20 just above Jordan Love. Even the other JH, Jalen Hurts who had rushed for 20 TD this year rank within top 10 who attempted 80 less passes and completed 50 less and almost 400 more yards. So what was it? Was it the talent around him or was it the system's fault?

Justin Herbert has one and one only favorite throw - "the Fastball". Not that he is completely incapable of other throws; he has done it from time to time, not greatly but.... he did it. Is that, in the priority chart, his trust in his Fastball is on the top of that list. To a point where, his thought process, his timing and delivery is structure around the idea of "how do I get this fastball in", his game suffer from the inherit issue with his fastball#1 approach.

His throwing style is more or less like a pitcher, he has this big pull back and a fast whipping motion in delivery. His passes tend to come in hot,very hot. Not only receiver has to often adjust to really secure the ball before they can start making moves, not ideal for YAC. Also the window of success for his kind of throw is very small. Unless the target is wide open and he is allow to step up and drills him, if it is a timing or anticipation throw, his passes usually travel through the window very fast. That really narrows the margin of error when the pass has to be accurate and target is in place to secure the heat; not a very convincing recipe for success. And because he generates the momentum of his throw in a back and fore motion instead of a rotational motion, if he isn't allow to set his balance and his motion is interrupted, he loses a bit control.

Also his passes are very flat with relatively less spin. When a football is flying in the air, the spin gives the flight stability. When a ball is spinning faster, the inertia stabilize the center of mass and gives it a control flight. It might not be as fast but much more stable and come down steeper on entry, handy in beating underneath coverage, especially in deep ball situation. Also the more stable flight gives receivers a better idea of where the ball is going so they can adjust to the ball. As compare to a ball that fly fast and flat, relying more on the velocity to control the flight; it can knuckle a little bit when not throw perfectly or hurried. , because of how flat the passes are, when miss throwing deep or on the throwing on the back foot, it tends to sail. And when release too flat or trying to hit a target moving away, it tends dives short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWPx2kL6mxo

This is a game of his playing against Cal. a decent team that is not over powering or under matched so it has a little bit of everything on there.

First play of the, coverage was aggressive and he threw a dart toward coverage, at first you say "maybe this is heads up play and draw a PI?" Or was he really trying to fit that window. Then you see he throw this exact pass again and again in the game. A low, flat fastball that into underneath coverage, then you say hmmm soooo, what's up?

Next play, again, fastball over the middle, this time int. This is not the only time that Herbet's trust in his fastball override his decision making. He believed his dart can pierce the coverage and into an improbably small window that nobody else would willing to risk. That is not a read problem, that is a tendency problem. He might have gotten away with it like in games against Colorado but this time they make him pay. He was appear late on his delivery is #1 he needs to set up and align; #2 is he knows how fast his fastball is and if he lets go too soon, its going to fly right by the window. Even if he reads the play correct, he still can't let go until the time is right, then he caught staring. That's an example of how his fastball thinking effect his overall play.

Then the next few plays they give him some easy dump offs and clean pocket to read and get it out fast. That's when he look best, when things are under control. But in the NFL, you rarely have that kind of luxury to be in control all the time.

1:38 - Great shoelace catch from the receiver. But the throw itself, when you throw as flat a he does, when a receiver is moving away from him and if the ball doesn't catch up to the target quick enough, it going to dive.

1:59 - Standing still in the pocket read and read, doesn't give the pressure a thought. That's the luxury he has this season is that he plays with a pretty clean pocket for the most part and it is not in his process of thought to look out for the pressure from the A gap. His pocket awareness is subpar, matter of fact besides Burrow and Hurts most other QB in this class are subpar in pocket awareness IMO.

Next few is just perfect pocket and target practice, too easy.

3:19 - Rolls out to buy time, sees the opening pulls the ball back and whips it flat deep. When the ball is coming this fast and flat, it zip in and out of the window of success in a flash, if the atrget is a step slow or the ball is thrown a little off, the ball can be yards apart. And when he leans back, it usually sails, that is the same problem Cam Newton always have and it is not easy to change.

3:40 - WR starts out inside, pass the CB and beat him in a foot race on a post. That should be an anticipation throw. That should be a high arching pass toward the endzone just outside the number that is thrown right before the CB turn his hip, instead of a target practice i see i throw play where it is too far and too fast for the WR to read and catch up. The placement was great but from way the ball gets point A to point B isn't great.

3:55 - ball dives on another target moving away from him.

4:03 - he was hurried on this throw, that motion and balance got interrupted; ball miss toward to direction he leans.

4:14 - he was hit but not hurried, stand tall and delivered. As long as his delivery process is not interrupted and remain balance he can do it. Again in NFL, just how often you get that?? and to get that in NFL is not cheap.

4:38 - pocket collapse, feet not set and not in balance, knuckles a 10 yard dump off.

5:40 - an ill advised low fast ball into triple coverage. To him that is a window his fastball can fit, but lets be frank and say that is a bad concept. The ball was thrown so fast and so low, it was a miracle it when pass the underneath coverage without being tipped and way to difficult of a ball for the target to have a chance on that one. Only Herbert looked "good" there big man throwing big rocks.

6:03 - Here it is again, it is reckless to try to squeeze a fastball that low on a slant coming across with underneath coverage has the inside leverage. First one you saw, ok maybe a heads up play to draw a penalty. Second time is like uh, that didn't look that good and 3rd time just kind of makes you think, maybe that's just how he sees the game. His risk assessment is dictated by his trust in his fastball.

6:36 - That's where his money is made, clean pocket and a zippy pass into the pocket of a zone. He knows where the ball was going to go right off the get go, so he wait and watch until that window opens and fires it. If he didn't throw such a hot pass, he will for sure be paying a price telegraphing. Carson Wentz has a problem in telegraphing and was called out by the seahawks before. Teams are so fast to pick things up it would be a surprise he would be picked up on even before the half ends.


7:36 - That pass should be thrown with more touch, its becoming a common theme that Herbert needs to put more finesse in his game. That ball went so fast out of the window of success that the receiver didn't even have a chance to make a play on.


All and all, you see some things he does well when everything is going well and accordingly when the balance and timing is not disrupted. But you also see what you might get if things aren't going as well. So at this point, for him to succeed, it takes a village. The line, the target that can make separation and he is not ask to beat peeps deep in tight coverage. Lets just say, its all there and he performs, how are you going to keep that up when he signs his big contract? In this day and age when QB is making as much as they did and holdup that much of cap space, it is going to be tough to beef up the line and still retain the other parts of the team. Then players walk for bigger contract. Then you build through draft, and when this group of the young player in their rookie contract start playing up, then you can compete again. So logically you would think his window to win a superbowl would be during his rookie contract or his twilight years. Lets just say Herbert isn't taking nobody to the superbowl right now.

Therefore, in the day and age you need a QB there can play very well on the go and throw on the run. So that you can afford to blow the load on protection and still spend on free agent to remain competitive.

First, I agree that Herbert is not worth us taking at #6 overall. In fact, none of the QBs in this draft are--including Burrow and Tagovailoa.

That said, I think your discussion (in multiple posts) of Herbert has been way too harsh. He has a strong arm, but he also does a very good job at lofting passes when that is required on a given play. His stats demonstrate a very low INT rate, better than Eason and much better than Love, which is inconsistent with your discussion of Herbert. Similarly, his completion percentage and YPA are both better than those of either Eason or Love. 66.8% for Herbert is rock solid and suggests that he is usually an accurate passer.

So while I would not favor us drafting Herbert at #6 overall, I would have no issue with us drafting him later in the draft, even as early as the second half of the first round. Of course, I realize that based upon early projections, he may not be there for us to draft in the second half of the first round. And I am fine with that.

Hurts, by contrast, is garbage. Honestly, I would be irritated if we drafted him (anywhere in the draft).

Lastly, in my view, the comparison between Newton and Herbert is not well taken. Herbert, while perhaps not the running option Newton has been, is a significantly better passer than Newton.

[C'monchargers]

First, I agree that Herbert is not worth us taking at #6 overall. In fact, none of the QBs in this draft are--including Burrow and Tagovailoa.

That said, I think your discussion (in multiple posts) of Herbert has been way too harsh. He has a strong arm, but he also does a very good job at lofting passes when that is required on a given play. His stats demonstrate a very low INT rate, better than Eason and much better than Love, which is inconsistent with your discussion of Herbert. Similarly, his completion percentage and YPA are both better than those of either Eason or Love. 66.8% for Herbert is rock solid and suggests that he is usually an accurate passer.

So while I would not favor us drafting Herbert at #6 overall, I would have no issue with us drafting him later in the draft, even as early as the second half of the first round. Of course, I realize that based upon early projections, he may not be there for us to draft in the second half of the first round. And I am fine with that.

Hurts, by contrast, is garbage. Honestly, I would be irritated if we drafted him (anywhere in the draft).

Lastly, in my view, the comparison between Newton and Herbert is not well taken. Herbert, while perhaps not the running option Newton has been, is a significantly better passer than Newton.

I think you take what i wrote and put it out of context. What I wrote was, specifically a comparison for their long ball trajectory, and tendency of the ball coming out flat and fast; when they try to put some air under it usually sail. Cam Newton has a problem with that and still trying to fix. Even his (Herbert) passes at the combine - which he should shine - is a little bit pushing the air. Herbert is not a quick twitch QB and when he is rush, his old habit may rise and a rocket it goes. It's all in the mentality, fight or flight; think fast. Well logically, instinct comes first, so even if he add finesse can he think finesse and create with finesse?

I don't know man, I think what I said about Herbert compare to you calling Hurts Garbage is far less harsh. I mean its opinion right?

And lastly I think I have said enough about Herbert so meh.

[Guest]

I think you take what i wrote and put it out of context. What I wrote was, specifically a comparison for their long ball trajectory, and tendency of the ball coming out flat and fast; when they try to put some air under it usually sail. Cam Newton has a problem with that and still trying to fix. Even his (Herbert) passes at the combine - which he should shine - is a little bit pushing the air. Herbert is not a quick twitch QB and when he is rush, his old habit may rise and a rocket it goes. It's all in the mentality, fight or flight; think fast. Well logically, instinct comes first, so even if he add finesse can he think finesse and create with finesse?

I don't know man, I think what I said about Herbert compare to you calling Hurts Garbage is far less harsh. I mean its opinion right?

And lastly I think I have said enough about Herbert so meh.

I understood the comparison. I just do not agree with it.

Yes, it is all opinion. It seems as if you have a low opinion of Herbert just as I do of Hurts.

[gzubeck]

I understood the comparison. I just do not agree with it.

Yes, it is all opinion. It seems as if you have a low opinion of Herbert just as I do of Hurts.

Man, I like both of them for different Reasons. If Herbert is on the board at #6 we'd be stupid not to take him.

[richpjr]

Scouting Combine Winners

Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon: Nothing surprising about Herbert's athleticism or his throwing prowess Thursday night. The ball came out very well and the placement was plus. The arc on his deep throws was impressive. Receivers didn't have to work too hard to bring in his passes, whether on in-routes or speed outs. The Oregon product was also smiling and joking during the workout, showing plenty of personality. Yes, everything was against air, but I've seen other talented passers look far less polished in the same situation. Mission accomplished.