Future With Lynn?

[Guest]

Herbert gets sacked an average of 2.1 times per game and Burrow got sacked 3.2 times per game when you were trying to say he wasnt getting hit for weeks prior to his injury when in fact he got sacked 4 times the week before lol.

There were two games all year that he didnt get sacked but im sure he got hit in every one of them.

I stated that Burrow averaged being sacked twice per game over his last 5 games. That trend, the one that existed after Burrow made his adjustment (stopped holding the ball too long), represents the performance of the OL without Burrow's significant adverse contribution (that he himself acknowledged).

And, of course, my point was and is that he was getting sacked at about the same rate per game as Herbert has been sacked (Burrow 2.0, Herbert 2.1) during that time period.

As an observation, it is interesting that out of one side of your mouth you maintain that our OL is much worse than BUF's, but out of the other you also suggest that our OL is much better than CIN's.

[Boltjolt]

I stated that Burrow averaged being sacked twice per game over his last 5 games. That trend, the one that existed after Burrow made his adjustment (stopped holding the ball too long), represents the performance of the OL without Burrow's significant adverse contribution (that he himself acknowledged).

And, of course, my point was and is that he was getting sacked at about the same rate per game as Herbert has been sacked (Burrow 2.0, Herbert 2.1) during that time period.

As an observation, it is interesting that out of one side of your mouth you maintain that our OL is much worse than BUF's, but out of the other you also suggest that our OL is much better than CIN's.

He was sacked 14 times in his last 5 games so, .....No. Thats not counting getting hit which you said wasnt happening. Our OL is better than Cinci's and worse than Buffalos. Observation is correct.

[Guest]

With the piss poor online play. The terrible RB and TE depth and all the injury to stars on defense.
Going 7-9 is a miracle with a rookie QB that someone from PFF said can not play QB at a professional level. And Chainy said was not worth drafting and it would be better to stick with old man Rivers.

I think I'm going credit Lynn. As Justin said he is in the QB room telling him how he wants things done.
Seems like Lynn knew the run game and screen game were very important to slow down the pass rush and balance things out so Herbert was not under fire each and every snap he drop back to pass. It appears to have worked. JH10 behind worst pass blocking line in league ends up OROY.

Lynn2021
:salute:

Chaincrusher - Fired!

:anchorjump: Happy New Year!!!!

Again, as you know but choose to ignore in your effort to mislead others, I had Herbert rated as the top QB on the draft board (unlike you, who wanted to trade multiple first round draft picks for Burrow, who was below average this season). I never suggested that Herbert was not worth drafting, just that all of the QBs were overvalued at #6 overall. I think I was clearly right about that with respect to every QB not named Herbert, but was wrong about that with respect to Herbert.

Most people did not have Herbert as their top QB, so I was more right than most, but Herbert has exceeded my expectations as I did not have the benefit of seeing him practice before the season began.

Rivers has had a solid season. His numbers are artificially low because IND scores a lot of its TDs running the ball. That, of course, does not mean that Rivers could not have passed for those same TDs. Rivers had the same issue in 2006 when LT broke the TD record and in 2007 when LT was still heavily featured.

Lynn has lost a bunch of games for us this year and won zero games for us, so your giving credit to Lynn is asinine.

Herbert is a stud in spite of Lynn, not because of him.

[powderblueboy]

With the piss poor online play. The terrible RB and TE depth and all the injury to stars on defense.
Going 7-9 is a miracle with a rookie QB that someone from PFF said can not play QB at a professional level. And Chainy said was not worth drafting and it would be better to stick with old man Rivers.

I think I'm going credit Lynn. As Justin said he is in the QB room telling him how he wants things done.
Seems like Lynn knew the run game and screen game were very important to slow down the pass rush and balance things out so Herbert was not under fire each and every snap he drop back to pass. It appears to have worked. JH10 behind worst pass blocking line in league ends up OROY.

Lynn2021
:salute:

Chaincrusher - Fired!

:anchorjump: Happy New Year!!!!

This is even more head scratching than your A Lynn > Belicheat phase.

[Guest]

He was sacked 14 times in his last 5 games so, .....No. Thats not counting getting hit which you said wasnt happening. Our OL is better than Cinci's and worse than Buffalos. Observation is correct.

No, Burrow was not sacked 14 times in his last 5 games. Against WAS, Burrow had zero sacks against him with 34 attempts. Finley came in after the injury to Burrow and held the ball too long (just like Burrow had done earlier in the season), resulting in 4 sacks with only 10 passes attempted.

Now that you see the inconsistency (as I have presented it to you), the BUF OL is suddenly not much better than ours and the CIN OL is suddenly not much worse than ours in your above quoted post.

Keep in mind, I have stated all along that BUF's OL is better than ours, acknowledging that BUF's run blocking was significantly better than ours and that BUF's pass blocking was better than ours, but that the difference in the OLs overall was not a huge difference. You have challenged that and indicated that BUF had a huge advantage with its OL versus ours and have also suggested that CIN's OL is much worse than ours.

But since it is difficult to maintain both positions simultaneously, you are now hedging/backpedaling.

[Boltjolt]

No, Burrow was not sacked 14 times in his last 5 games. Against WAS, Burrow had zero sacks against him with 34 attempts. Finley came in after the injury to Burrow and held the ball too long (just like Burrow had done earlier in the season), resulting in 4 sacks with only 10 passes attempted.

Now that you see the inconsistency (as I have presented it to you), the BUF OL is suddenly not much better than ours and the CIN OL is suddenly not much worse than ours in your above quoted post.

Keep in mind, I have stated all along that BUF's OL is better than ours, acknowledging that BUF's run blocking was significantly better than ours and that BUF's pass blocking was better than ours, but that the difference in the OLs overall was not a huge difference. You have challenged that and indicated that BUF had a huge advantage with its OL versus ours and have also suggested that CIN's OL is much worse than ours.

But since it is difficult to maintain both positions simultaneously, you are now hedging/backpedaling.

I was looking at the wrong section, so you are right. Still, their OL is worse than ours and he was sacked more in ten games than Herbert has been in 14. He also didn't have a below Ave season. That's just dumb talk.

[Guest]

I was looking at the wrong section, so you are right. Still, their OL is worse than ours and he was sacked more in ten games than Herbert has been in 14. He also didn't have a below Ave season. That's just dumb talk.

Again, Burrow was sacked more earlier in the season because Burrow held the ball too long. Burrow acknowledged this defect following the game against BAL.

I used every game after the BAL game as my basis for analysis since Burrow indicated that he would fix the issue. And, credit to Burrow, he did make that adjustment, so he ended up getting sacked much less frequently. That is why the sack stats for his last 5 games are more reliable than the sack stats for the first 5 games. By contrast, Herbert never really had that problem like Burrow did.

Regarding Burrow's performance, his QB rating currently is good for 27th in the league. That indicates some significant shortcomings. As I expected, there were some arm strength issues and he struggled with passes over longer air yards (since he was no longer throwing to Justin Jefferson standing all alone in a pasture). He ended up 20th or worse in completion percentage, YPA and TD% (where he is 30th). That is a below average performance.

[Randall Turner]

Keep in mind, I have stated all along that BUF's OL is better than ours, acknowledging that BUF's run blocking was significantly better than ours and that BUF's pass blocking was better than ours, but that the difference in the OLs overall was not a huge difference. You have challenged that and indicated that BUF had a huge advantage with its OL versus ours and have also suggested that CIN's OL is much worse than ours.

But since it is difficult to maintain both positions simultaneously, you are now hedging/backpedaling.

Well, and if we’re really ranked 32nd** in pass protection Cincinnati is literally in a league of their own if they’re worse. :shrug:

(not saying it’s impossible, just make an argument.

Partner, most of your posts I’m going “yep, okay” but jesus our OL is terrible right now. I honestly feel like if Herbert isn’t hauled off on a stretcher this year, he’s untouchable. Any normal environment he’d have Roethlisberger sack stats. (but less rapey.)

** - Where’s the “32nd in PP” come from anyway, one of PFF’s subscriber only stats? Can’t find it.

[Boltjolt]

Again, Burrow was sacked more earlier in the season because Burrow held the ball too long. Burrow acknowledged this defect following the game against BAL.

I used every game after the BAL game as my basis for analysis since Burrow indicated that he would fix the issue. And, credit to Burrow, he did make that adjustment, so he ended up getting sacked much less frequently. That is why the sack stats for his last 5 games are more reliable than the sack stats for the first 5 games. By contrast, Herbert never really had that problem like Burrow did.

Regarding Burrow's performance, his QB rating currently is good for 27th in the league. That indicates some significant shortcomings. As I expected, there were some arm strength issues and he struggled with passes over longer air yards (since he was no longer throwing to Justin Jefferson standing all alone in a pasture). He ended up 20th or worse in completion percentage, YPA and TD% (where he is 30th). That is a below average performance.

Lol, C'mon man, so lame.

There are three rookie QBs now starting,.. Well two now. You are comparing him to the entire league with starting veteran QBs? How fucked up is that?
Andrew Luck holds the record for most yards by a rookie that Herbert may or may not break. But Luck's completion % was only 54.
He had 18 INTs.

Burrow was on pace to equal or break that record himself with a 65% rate and on course for 20 + TDs and around 8 INTs (only had 5 when injured)

Thats not a below average season, that's just your fucked up reasoning. I don't know why you don't like him but he don't play for us so I don't know why you keep talking nonsense about him.

Drew Brees does not have a great arm and may not be as good as Burrows arm and he is the NFL leaders in yards,... Ever!
So I'll say again, who cares how strong some QBs arm is. It's where the ball ends up that matters.

BTW, Robert Griffin won OROY that 2012 season, not Luck with 1100 less yards than Luck.

Some Rookie season stats:

Dak Prescott 3600+, 67%, 23TDs, 4 INTs,.... he had a very respectable rookie season.
Russell Wilson, 64%, 3100 yards, 26tds-10 INTs
Ben - 14 games, 66% 2600 yards, 17TDs-11INTs
Rivers first year starting and wasn't a rookie, 3400 yards, 62%, 22-9
Matt Ryan, 3400 yards, 61%, 16-11
Cam, 4000 yards, 61% hasn't done it since, 21-17
Mayfield, 3700, 63%, 27-14
Tannehill 3300, 58%, 12-13
Alex Smith, 9 games, 875 yards, 51%, 1-11
Mat Stafford, 10 games, 2267, 53%, 16-20
Andy Dalton, 3400, 58%, 20-13


I could go on but it don't get better.

These are the QBs as rookies you should be comparing him to this season, not established starting QBs in the league as vets and saying he is below average. For a rookie he has a has a pretty damn good year on a shit team.

You are going to be Wrong about Burrow.

[Critty]

What the heck are you talking about Chainy.
Acknowledge that BUF run blocking was significantly better.
It was slightly better.
Chargers rank #31 in run blocking win rate Bills rank #27 in run blocking win rate
Bills are significantly better at pass protection and on defense significantly better at pass rush
In a QB Driven league that is big time production from Bills in protecting their QB and pressuring opponent QB.

Chargers #32 pass and #31 run.
6 wins with that type of trench work is a minor miracle.
Team should be 2-13 right now.
But the game plan to keep running and using screen game have really helped slow down the pass rush so Hebert can succeed in spite of the bad o-line play.

BTW Bengals rank 28th in pass block. But I don't think they game plan as well as Chargers did to keep pressure off a rookie QB. They went with the Chainy plan and put the entire offense on his back. Didn't work out. And with the back up they now went run heavy. In last 3 games they have only pass it 47% of snaps. Only the Ravens have passed it less.

In the 10 games Burrow played, the Bengals were 6th highest in pass percentage 63% of time. And doing that with a poor pass blocking line. Bad decision if you ask me. They are now passing it 47% because it takes pressure off the backup QB.

Meanwhile back in Charger Town. Lynn had Herbert at about 54% pass rate to start out the season in his 1st 8 games. But also began to really increase the pass rate to 65 percent over next 6 games. Pushing season total up to 59 percent pass on the year. And potentially end with a 4 game win streak and Herbert OROY.

Lynn2021
:salute:

[Guest]

Lol, C'mon man, so lame.

There are three rookie QBs now starting,.. Well two now. You are comparing him to the entire league with starting veteran QBs? How fucked up is that?
Andrew Luck holds the record for most years by a rookie that Herbert may or may not break. But Luck's completion % was only 54.
He had 18 INTs.

Burrow was on pace to equal or break that record himself with a 65% rate and on course for 20 + TDs and around 8 INTs (only had 5 when injured)

Thats not a below average season, that's just your fucked up reasoning. I don't know why you don't like him but he don't play for us so I don't know why you keep talking nonsense about him.

Drew Brees does not have a great arm and may not be as good as Burrows arm and he is the NFL leaders in yards,... Ever!
So I'll say again, who cares how strong some QBs arm is. It's where the ball ends up that matters.

BTW, Robert Griffin won OROY that 2012 season, not Luck with 1100 less yards than Luck.

Some Rookie season stats:

Dak Prescott 3600+, 67%, 23TDs, 4 INTs,.... he had a very respectable rookie season.
Russell Wilson, 64%, 3100 yards, 26tds-10 INTs
Ben - 14 games, 66% 2600 yards, 17TDs-11INTs
Rivers first year starting and wasn't a rookie, 3400 yards, 62%, 22-9
Matt Ryan, 3400 yards, 61%, 16-11
Cam, 4000 yards, 61% hasn't done it since, 21-17
Mayfield, 3700, 63%, 27-14
Tannehill 3300, 58%, 12-13
Alex Smith, 9 games, 875 yards, 51%, 1-11
Mat Stafford, 10 games, 2267, 53%, 16-20
Andy Dalton, 3400, 58%, 20-13


I could go on but it don't get better.

These are the QBs as rookies you should be comparing him to this season, not established starting QBs in the league as vets and saying he is below average. For a rookie he has a has a pretty damn good year on a shit team.

You are going to be Wrong about Burrow.

Yes, all players get compared to others at their position. There is no grading on a curve for rookies.

I am perfectly willing to accept as a proposition that Burrow is likely to improve some as he develops, but to say that he had a good season this season is just wrong. He played below average at the QB position by the standard set by the rest of the league. That is just a fact.

Again, he is currently 27th in passer rating and his head coach put him in a position to have a strong rating by not restricting his ability to pass the ball (unlike, for example, what Reich has done with Rivers this season). Burrow's YPA, completion percentage and especially TD% are all below average to well below average.

Also, I do not disagree with the notion that Burrow was on pace to break the passing yardage record for a rookie. But that quantity result was solely due to the number of passes he was permitted to attempt. It was quantity without much quality. That is what the passer rating numbers tell us.

At the rate he showed this season, over a career, Burrow would be like Eli Manning, a guy who put up over 57,000 yards not because he was good, but because he threw a lot of passes. They are not the same thing.

Regarding arm strength, I cannot speak for the rest of Burrow's career. All I can say is that his lack of arm strength definitely hurt him this year at times as I expected it would. Some of the passes he threw at LSU were never going to work on a regular basis in the NFL. It would not surprise me, however, if he and his team developed his game in a way that tended to avoid that weakness.

I think Burrow would be a natural in a McDaniels' type offense featuring short, quick, game manager type passes, but that he would struggle in a more vertical offense like Arians uses.

Overall, though, I think it is clear that we got the QB with the highest upside of those taken in the 2020 draft and that Burrow was/is overrated at least to some degree as people were discussing him as a once in a generation type prospect, which I think at this point seems fairly ridiculous.

[Boltjolt]

Yes, all players get compared to others at their position. There is no grading on a curve for rookies.

I am perfectly willing to accept as a proposition that Burrow is likely to improve some as he develops, but to say that he had a good season this season is just wrong. He played below average at the QB position by the standard set by the rest of the league. That is just a fact.

Again, he is currently 27th in passer rating and his head coach put him in a position to have a strong rating by not restricting his ability to pass the ball (unlike, for example, what Reich has done with Rivers this season). Burrow's YPA, completion percentage and especially TD% are all below average to well below average.

Also, I do not disagree with the notion that Burrow was on pace to break the passing yardage record for a rookie. But that quantity result was solely due to the number of passes he was permitted to attempt. It was quantity without much quality. That is what the passer rating numbers tell us.

At the rate he showed this season, over a career, Burrow would be like Eli Manning, a guy who put up over 57,000 yards not because he was good, but because he threw a lot of passes. They are not the same thing.

Regarding arm strength, I cannot speak for the rest of Burrow's career. All I can say is that his lack of arm strength definitely hurt him this year at times as I expected it would. Some of the passes he threw at LSU were never going to work on a regular basis in the NFL. It would not surprise me, however, if he and his team developed his game in a way that tended to avoid that weakness.

I think Burrow would be a natural in a McDaniels' type offense featuring short, quick, game manager type passes, but that he would struggle in a more vertical offense like Arians uses.

Overall, though, I think it is clear that we got the QB with the highest upside of those taken in the 2020 draft and that Burrow was/is overrated at least to some degree as people were discussing him as a once in a generation type prospect, which I think at this point seems fairly ridiculous.

Lol, wow.
Luck threw 627 passes as a rookie...... Completing 54%, and they were 11-5.

Bad teams like Burrows and ours throw alot too. So yes anyone who would break the record is going to throw a lot so I don't get your reason there.
With 36 passes against KC, Herbert will hit 600 in 15 games. I'm guessing we throw more than 36 times if they want him to get the record or we are losing.

You know like the 53 passes we threw against NE and the 52 the week before against Buffalo. The 49 attempts the week before that against the lowly Jets. 44 against Atlanta, etc.

Elis rating as a rookie was 55.....hardly what Burrows is.
Brady doesn't have a great arm either, but can throw long. All fine. Nobody is throwing a 70-80 in air pass.

Sorry but nobody would agree with you that Burrow had a below average season. Every time they mention him they say he was having a good season as I and everybody here has said that comment about him.