Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

[Bearded14YourPleasure]

I agree that the WRs will be seen in packages. The problem is that there is only one ball. Snaps and targets for Palmer cut into snaps and targets for other WRs. Unless we draft an elite WR prospect, the snaps and targets for Guyton and Johnson should not be reduced. If anything, Guyton's targets should be about the same and Johnson's targets should be increased as should Parham's out of the TE position.

I do not see any passing situations in which I would rather have Palmer on the field than Guyton and/or Johnson. That is the problem. It appears as if some think Palmer is a big bodied possession WR. He is not that big--actually listed as the same size as Guyton. And I would rather have Guyton and/or Johnson in on those plays anyway so defenses cannot cheat in the short passing area.

Yes, we need another WR if Mike Williams leaves, but it should be someone that can actually fully replace Mike Williams at a minimum. Improving upon Mike Williams would be ideal. I do not believe that Palmer is anywhere close to being that level of player. I do not see any elite traits in Palmer. And teams do not get better by getting worse.

Shouldn’t the targets go to the receiver that Herbert feels he can beat complete the pass too? If Palmer is taking targets away from Guyton and Johnson that means that he is doing a good job and giving Herbert a chance to have a positive play. Did Keenan take snaps and targets away from Guyton and Johnson last year since he isn’t getting open down field the same as those speedsters?

Totally agree that some people seem to be overstating Palmer’s size, although I do think his body positioning and route running give him a better chance than Guyton to make a contested catch. Personally once we get into the red zone I would rather have Palmer than Guyton on the field due to route running and Guyton’s inconsistencies catching the ball.

I’m waiting to see how exactly they ask MW to operate within this offense before I worry about replacing/resigning him. He’s reportedly taking that Thomas role so will be interested to see if they continue to use him as a field stretcher or if he can get more involved in the short/intermediate game.

[Guest]

Shouldn’t the targets go to the receiver that Herbert feels he can beat complete the pass too? If Palmer is taking targets away from Guyton and Johnson that means that he is doing a good job and giving Herbert a chance to have a positive play. Did Keenan take snaps and targets away from Guyton and Johnson last year since he isn’t getting open down field the same as those speedsters?

Totally agree that some people seem to be overstating Palmer’s size, although I do think his body positioning and route running give him a better chance than Guyton to make a contested catch. Personally once we get into the red zone I would rather have Palmer than Guyton on the field due to route running and Guyton’s inconsistencies catching the ball.

I’m waiting to see how exactly they ask MW to operate within this offense before I worry about replacing/resigning him. He’s reportedly taking that Thomas role so will be interested to see if they continue to use him as a field stretcher or if he can get more involved in the short/intermediate game.

I think the issue is more of which WR sees the field. It is difficult to throw to Guyton if the coaches put Palmer in the game in Guyton's place. And my concern is more that Palmer is "their guy" versus Palmer actually being better or better for our offense.

Just like the size issue--Guyton and Palmer being almost identical in size (Guyton actually being two pounds heavier)--this notion of hands is hugely overstated as well. Palmer just dropped an easy reception against SEA. I do not see a WR in Palmer with elite or even plus hands. (I am aware that Palmer had good no drop numbers in college.) Palmer's much hyped hands seem pretty average to me so far. And Guyton's alleged drop issue is wildly overstated as well, especially since he offsets the few drops with occasional great catches.

Honestly, I see no real advantage on contested catches for Palmer either. Actually, when Guyton has about a half step of separation on vertical routes, he uses a very subtle arm push off to increase his separation. He is very good at that. I agree with you that Palmer uses body position and also that it is that much more so than a size thing for him.

But for me, Palmer is like Hunter Henry at times in that he is kind of easy for skilled DBs to cover. Guyton is more sudden and more likely to get bigger separation on any given play. I think Palmer is more polished, but with fewer physical tools. In that respect, he is like K.J. Hill, but Palmer is more talented than Hill.

To me, Allen is much more of the Thomas type player (always open on shorter passes), so that really will be interesting to see how Mike Williams handles more of those kinds of Michael Thomas routes if that is the plan.

[WindsorUK]

Short of Keenan getting hurt( which would SUCK!), I can't imagine Palmer getting a lot of run.
Too many other options ahead of the rookie( KA, MW, Guyton, Johnson, Cook, Parham, Ekeler, Anderson, Nabors).
He'll get his chances next year when MW is making big$$$ somewhere else.

[Bearded14YourPleasure]

Palmer is the only WR they’ve drafted so he’s the only WR that’s “their guy”. So is he going to take snaps away from other WR for this supposed favoritism that he’s going to get. Maybe McKitty will leapfrog Cook for TE snaps too? Niemann over Murray? Gotta look out for “their guy” after all. Honestly wondering what this staff has done to make you think that’s even remotely a possibility as they have spent PS protecting proven players.

Palmer’s single drop of preseason is an issue but Guyton’s numerous drops are overstated? Guyton had a drop against the Rams, so that’s the same amount of drops in preseason alone despite Guyton’s lower targets. Guyton had 5 targets for 2 receptions with an 8 yard average against those same “scrubs” in the Rams game that Palmer had 7 targets for 6 receptions and a 6 yard average (both with a long of 9 yards).

Why are you bringing in Guyton’s separation on deep routes when I’m talking about the red zone? There are no deep routes in the red zone. You said you don’t see a passing situation where Palmer is better than Guyton, I give you one, then you say it’s irrelevant because of routes that don’t exist in that situation.

Palmer is Hunter Henry? That’s great to hear since Henry had more receptions and yards than Guyton while playing 2 less games AND having to help block for our awful blocking. When you talk about physical tools do you just mean faster? You just got done telling us all how similar in size Guyton and Palmer are so what physical tools (plural so please name multiple) is Palmer lacking?

I do agree about Keenan, I thought for sure he would be taking the Thomas role. Very interested to see how he gets used vs how MW gets used.

[Guest]

Palmer is the only WR they’ve drafted so he’s the only WR that’s “their guy”. So is he going to take snaps away from other WR for this supposed favoritism that he’s going to get. Maybe McKitty will leapfrog Cook for TE snaps too? Niemann over Murray? Gotta look out for “their guy” after all. Honestly wondering what this staff has done to make you think that’s even remotely a possibility as they have spent PS protecting proven players.

Palmer’s single drop of preseason is an issue but Guyton’s numerous drops are overstated? Guyton had a drop against the Rams, so that’s the same amount of drops in preseason alone despite Guyton’s lower targets. Guyton had 5 targets for 2 receptions with an 8 yard average against those same “scrubs” in the Rams game that Palmer had 7 targets for 6 receptions and a 6 yard average (both with a long of 9 yards).

Why are you bringing in Guyton’s separation on deep routes when I’m talking about the red zone? There are no deep routes in the red zone. You said you don’t see a passing situation where Palmer is better than Guyton, I give you one, then you say it’s irrelevant because of routes that don’t exist in that situation.

Palmer is Hunter Henry? That’s great to hear since Henry had more receptions and yards than Guyton while playing 2 less games AND having to help block for our awful blocking. When you talk about physical tools do you just mean faster? You just got done telling us all how similar in size Guyton and Palmer are so what physical tools (plural so please name multiple) is Palmer lacking?

I do agree about Keenan, I thought for sure he would be taking the Thomas role. Very interested to see how he gets used vs how MW gets used.

1. The competition is obviously closer between Guyton and Palmer than those other competitions you mentioned so your comparison is bad. Coaches definitely do have biases and my commentary in this thread began with the notion with which many draft pundits concur that this team views Palmer more favorably than many others do. So, the notion that Palmer could be deemed the winner of any close battle is not a crazy thought at all for a team that by consensus opinion reached about 1.5 rounds to draft Palmer. After all, Anthony Lynn started Tyrod Taylor over Justin Herbert last year. This kind of thing does happen.

2. I am not suggesting that Palmer's single drop is an issue. I am suggesting that his hands are not better than Guyton's. Both players have the occasional dropped pass. Palmer's hands are nothing special and neither are Guyton's in the negative way that some consider them to be. I think that many here view both players incorrectly.

3. You mentioned Palmer's "advantage" on contested catches/red zone. I responded by noting that Guyton has some contested catch tools of his own. I do not believe that Palmer is better on contested catches versus Guyton at all. I do not believe that Palmer is better than Guyton in the red zone. I am not really sure what you are missing about that. You gave me an example that you believe, but I do not agree with your example.

4. The comparison to Henry was limited to both being able to be easily covered by DBs. Again, I am not really sure how you missed that. My statement was clear. Palmer struggles to gain separation. He has zero elite traits. Palmer lacks elite speed and lacks even average quickness for a WR. His moves are lacking. In sum, he is just easier to cover than our top 4 WRs and he is not a jump ball guy or a big body guy. That is not the best combination of traits.

[equivocation]

the only winning move is not to play

[dmac_bolt]

I think the issue is more of which WR sees the field. It is difficult to throw to Guyton if the coaches put Palmer in the game in Guyton's place. And my concern is more that Palmer is "their guy" versus Palmer actually being better or better for our offense.

Just like the size issue--Guyton and Palmer being almost identical in size (Guyton actually being two pounds heavier)--this notion of hands is hugely overstated as well. Palmer just dropped an easy reception against SEA. I do not see a WR in Palmer with elite or even plus hands. (I am aware that Palmer had good no drop numbers in college.) Palmer's much hyped hands seem pretty average to me so far. And Guyton's alleged drop issue is wildly overstated as well, especially since he offsets the few drops with occasional great catches.

Honestly, I see no real advantage on contested catches for Palmer either. Actually, when Guyton has about a half step of separation on vertical routes, he uses a very subtle arm push off to increase his separation. He is very good at that. I agree with you that Palmer uses body position and also that it is that much more so than a size thing for him.

But for me, Palmer is like Hunter Henry at times in that he is kind of easy for skilled DBs to cover. Guyton is more sudden and more likely to get bigger separation on any given play. I think Palmer is more polished, but with fewer physical tools. In that respect, he is like K.J. Hill, but Palmer is more talented than Hill.

To me, Allen is much more of the Thomas type player (always open on shorter passes), so that really will be interesting to see how Mike Williams handles more of those kinds of Michael Thomas routes if that is the plan.

One drop in the entire preseason and he’s got bad hands now. Ok.

[Bolt Dude]

the only winning move is not to play

Or just keep playing until Palmer makes the all-rookie team. Even then, I’m sure there will be many reasons for why he sucks.

[AK47]

Top 30 rookies for redraft. (offensive positions). Josh Palmer is at #23.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/fant...u1sly90q2t6sof

edit: and Roundtree is in at #25. Not too shabby for mid-late round picks.

[Guest]

One drop in the entire preseason and he’s got bad hands now. Ok.

What I said was, "I am not suggesting that Palmer's single drop is an issue. I am suggesting that his hands are not better than Guyton's." The allegation that Guyton has an issue with drops made by some is basically nonsense. The allegation that Palmer has great hands is also basically nonsense. They are about the same in terms of their hands, both kind of average for an NFL WR.

Nowhere in that statement or anywhere else have I stated that Palmer has bad hands.

[Guest]

Top 30 rookies for redraft. (offensive positions). Josh Palmer is at #23.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/fant...u1sly90q2t6sof

edit: and Roundtree is in at #25. Not too shabby for mid-late round picks.

Yeah, I kind of thought "meh" when we drafted Rountree, but his cutting ability and vision are both a little better than I thought.

[dmac_bolt]

What I said was, "I am not suggesting that Palmer's single drop is an issue. I am suggesting that his hands are not better than Guyton's." The allegation that Guyton has an issue with drops made by some is basically nonsense. The allegation that Palmer has great hands is also basically nonsense. They are about the same in terms of their hands, both kind of average for an NFL WR.

Nowhere in that statement or anywhere else have I stated that Palmer has bad hands.

its nonsense to say his hands are the same as Guytons when the latter has dropped a lot of passes, and the former has dropped one.