The Melvin Gordon Saga - Holdout Over

[jamrock]

And MG has? Let's not get carried away. PR is 100x more valuable to the team than MG. Not discounting MG's contributions, he does fight hard for yards and the score, but to want top RB-type money when you've really only been a top 10 ONE time?

Just pointing out the idiocy of saying MG III has not beaten the Chiefs.

[blueman]

If he's that much better than everybody else, why didn't we lose? And why didn't we win with him? Wouldn't a top tier difference maker, I dunno, make a difference?

[Steve]

Just for the discussion, the cap situation for next (2020) season.

According to over the cap, we have $54.5 mil (or so) under the cap. (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/los-angeles-chargers/ click on the 2020 tab)

We can free up about another $20 mil or so if we cut Perryman ($6.55 mil), Tyrod Taylor ($5.0 mill), Mebane ($4.25 mil) and Thomas Davis ($5.25 mil). There are others we could cut, but they are either starters which don't have established backups or are nickel and dime guys, who don't really save much if we are trying to clear space. Yeah, a million here or a million there, but no real savings. Plus, for the most part, to find vets to replace them would cost more than keeping them.

That gives a total of either $54.5 mil or up to $74.5 if we go whole hog to free up space, which is just an upper bound. Realistically, it would probably end up in between.

Remember that it takes about $6 mil or so to sign our draft picks. Most teams keep another $4-6 mil to be able to sign FA once the season starts to fill in for injuries (we currently have about $5 mil). Together, to keep the math easy, say $10 mil for all that.

That means effectively we have between $45.5 mil and $64.5 mil.

Estimating how much everyone would cost is always tough. Sportstrac has an estimate for both Gordon and Rivers. (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/cap/). The total would be $31.2 mil for Rivers and $11.8 mil for Gordon, for a nice round $43.0 mil, which effectively is all of our cap space next offseason (before cuts). Both are based on LINEAR extrapolation of other players production, and most contract math is usually not linear, plus their algorithm (as far as I can tell) doesn't factor in a few things (like injuries).

FA list (other than Rivers and Gordon) (Bold are ones I think are essential keepers, not wants, necessary)
Pouncey, Benjamin, Schofield, Trevor Williams, Phillips, Henry, Dzubnar, Geremy Davis, Watkins, Ty McGill, Lanier, Mayle, Jones, Spencer Drango, Cole Toner, Rochelle, Jatavis Brown, Derek Watt, Tre'von Johnson, Culkin, Ekeler, Michael Davis, Trent Scott, Cantrell, Richards, Artavis Scott, Wilson, Liggins, Patton, Afriyie (we can probably get by with either Davis or Williams at CB, not necessarily both).

So, cutting down to our 53 man roster will trim half or more off that list, but there are a few useful names. Even then, there are players not bolded who will probably prove useful (Schofield, Phillips and Watt to name a few).

Signing both Rivers and Gordon makes it hard to imagine being able to field a SB contending team in 2020, at least at full market value (if that is what the sportstrac # really represents).

We have other players that we need to have, like starting TE, starting CB, starting OL, 3rd down/change of pace RB and a backup DE.

Some might not consider them essential, but winning teams keep those types of players, especially in light of next year being the year that I had felt like we would be addressing the OL. Letting guys like Schofield (swing OG/OT) and Pouncey (starting C) leave might work out if others develop, but right now they could still play key roles. Guys like Virgil Green and Watt are important situational players and do important work on ST (so does Phillips and Ekeler).

Summary : This is kinda rambling, but the long and the short of it is hard to imagine being able to afford both Rivers and Gordon (and anyone else).

[Fleet]

Remember we can roll over cap. Unless that 54 includes the 10M we currently have. But i think that number is based on 2020 contracts. And there will be a cap increase.

Potentially another 20 or so right there right?

[Steve]

If he's that much better than everybody else, why didn't we lose? And why didn't we win with him? Wouldn't a top tier difference maker, I dunno, make a difference?

I always hate this line of reasoning for any single player. It seems inconsistent to have players like Rivers who hasn't beat KC in a while (or NE) and then use it against Gordon.

It's a team sport, and the team finally put in a worthy effort to beat KC (and Pitt).

Utlimately it comes down to how much cap space do we need to spend on Gordon and can we field a good team and him. I think he is pricing himself off the team, IMHO.

[Steve]

Remember we can roll over cap. And there will be a cap increase.

True, but we are going to be using some of that $5 mil we have left this season. And the cap increase is a double-edged sword. It drives the price up for key FA up for everyone, since it applies to every team.

[Panamamike]

I always hate this line of reasoning for any single player. It seems inconsistent to have players like Rivers who hasn't beat KC in a while (or NE) and then use it against Gordon.

It's a team sport, and the team finally put in a worthy effort to beat KC (and Pitt).

Utlimately it comes down to how much cap space do we need to spend on Gordon and can we field a good team and him. I think he is pricing himself off the team, IMHO.

Agreed. But there is no denying his numbers against the Chiefs have been horrible.

[Steve]

Agreed. But there is no denying his numbers against the Chiefs have been horrible.

I'm not denying it, just not sure you can pin it all on him. Tevi was worse than awful in his 2nd career start vs them at home last year. Our OL has just plain sucked and KC has had a good front 7 that penetrates and has been really disruptive to our OL lately.

[Panamamike]

I'm not denying it, just not sure you can pin it all on him. Tevi was worse than awful in his 2nd career start vs them at home last year. Our OL has just plain sucked and KC has had a good front 7 that penetrates and has been really disruptive to our OL lately.

Agreed it is not all on him. But KC has struggled against the run vs other teams, and i have not seen our O or MGIII exploit that at all, not just this past season.

[Big Dog]

Elliot, Barkley, Gurley, and Bell are all better than MG and maybe others ... so MG wants top 3 money without ever being a top 3 guy ... he'll even a top 5 guy ...

And Chargers don't have the cap room to give him what he is asking and more valuable players (Bosa, Rivers, Etc) will be coming up for renewal shortly ...

And the public and fans are not in support of his position and by saying he will demand a trade, he effectively just did, don't see how this can be recovered after this. Bell lost support of his Pittsburgh teammates over the course of his holdout and "he played out his contract" ... MG is refusing to honor his contract ... Bell honored his and was fighting a 2nd franchise tag ... hug difference ...

MG lied when he said he wanted a new deal but would play just a few weeks ago ... does he even have 10% support for his position ??

Somebody do a poll please ...

[Jagged]

I'm not denying it, just not sure you can pin it all on him. Tevi was worse than awful in his 2nd career start vs them at home last year. Our OL has just plain sucked and KC has had a good front 7 that penetrates and has been really disruptive to our OL lately.

A bit off topic, but since it was brought up. How did Tevi do his second go around with the Chiefs? Just curious if you seen a noticeable improvement from the first start.

On topic. I've been a huge Gordan fan since they drafted him and even I can see that he's only been slightly above average every year except last year. Trade him or let him sit, he's not worth that kind of money.

[Boltjolt]

Just pointing out the idiocy of saying MG III has not beaten the Chiefs.

Well to say Gordon has or hasnt beaten the Chiefs is ridiculous in itself. No one guy is beating the Chiefs. Perryman didn't play and the defense is certainly better with him. We were missing plenty of players and still won. NOBODY in the NFL would take Jackson over Gordon when you take money out of the equation.