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Originally posted by Topcat
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you would be 100% correct. It is a combination of things. Sometimes it’s the D sometimes it’s the kicker and sometimes it’s the O line. It this O line gets a large chunk of the blame as they have been terrible.
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You guys are making some good points. Any QB should do better behind better o-line. I have never disputed that.
I'm pointing out that most QBs do not have great top notch o-line play snap after snap. They just don't.
They have to find a way to move the chains and play smart situational football and protect the rock.Who has it better than us?Comment
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According to football outsiders our offensive line is
11th in pass blocking with a 6.4% sack rate, giving up 23 sacks. Tennessee is last with a 11.8% sack rate, giving up 43 sacks. They have a winning record. We do not.Comment
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And what about the 2004 o-line that Brees had success behind.
Fonoti only had one 16 games season ever. 2004
The next year he was traded to Vikings for 7th rd pick. Hmm?
Why trade a great lineman? He wasn’t good at pass blocking at all. Vikings did not keep him.
He bounced around other teams Miami, Falcons, Panthers and Lions. And they all kept cutting him.
Oben a great vet pick up for trade of a 5th rd pick.
But that was the only 16 game season he started for Bolts. He was not able to stay healthy and then was a back-up.
Hardwick the rookie proved to be solid and reliable for a decade.
Olivea the rookie overachieved and unfortunately had issues with pain killers. He only lasted 4 seasons.
Mike Goff was a great great great Veteran Leader. Played all 16 games from 2004-2008.
Before the 2004 season, Goff embraced the role of the underdog saying "I don't give a (darn) what other people say,'' "They say that all the time, unless you got eight Pro Bowlers. Everyone always questions the offensive line. That's fine. You accept that challenge and it makes you want to work harder to prove everybody wrong." on Aug 20, 2004Who has it better than us?Comment
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Brees has a better o-line in new Orleans.
Yes and No.
2006 Saints team. He won a playoff game.
Do you want the Chargers o-line or the Saints o-line from 2006.
Did you want LG Lamar Nesbit over LG Dielman?
Did you want LT Jammal Brown over LT McNeill?
Did you want C Jeff Faine over C Hardwick?
Did you want RG Jahri Evans over RG Goff?
Did you want RT Jon Stinchcomb over RT Olivea?Who has it better than us?Comment
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That 2009 Saints O-line. Credit all of them. And the Saints FO.
LT Bushrod (4th rd pick that took 2 seasons to get on the field and was a 1st year as starter that year)
LG Nicks (5th rd pick 2nd year as starter)
C Goodwin (5th rd pick. 6 season as a back up for Jets and Saints finally found a home in 2008. and 2009 had his 1st full season of 16 game started)
RG Evans (4th rd pick, reliable solid veteran who starts 16 games almost every year. Ill take that!!)
RT Stinchcomb (2nd rd pick, who did not start a single game his 1st Three years in the league, Injury issue year 3. Year 4 he finally became a starter in 2006)
So that's two 4th rd picks, two 5th rd picks and a 2nd rd pick.
The LT took 2 years to get on the field.
The C took 6 years to get the field.
The RT took 4 years to get on the field.
It all showed up that year. Brees play and leadership may have something to their success and the teams success.
The defense, the coaching and the special teams all get credit too.
Behind a line that has two 4th rd picks and two 5th rd picks and a 2nd rd pick.
2 of 5 lineman were finally starting 16 games for the 1st time ever in their careers.Who has it better than us?Comment
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That 13-3 Charger team of 2009.
McNeill
Dielman
Mruczkowski never played a snap at center before in an NFL game. (Hardwick was on IR)
Vasquez
Clary
Hmm?
The Chargers had a historically great passing offense that year, #1.
Their Run Game was ranked last, the defense was 23rd. Special Teams 16th.
They suffered injuries. Jamal the Wall went on IR. Hardwick went on IR. The middle of trenches on both sides of ball lost its best pro bowl player.
They won a lot of games that year.
Should give bulk of credit to that o-line? The HC. The OC.
No. I won’t do that. I give the majority of credit to Philip Rivers. He carried that team all year. 4 game wining drives. He has never had more in a single season.
He had 76.9 QBR, the best of his career. He had 4250Yds. 28TDs. Just 9INTs. And even rush TD. (he only has 3 career rushing TDs ever)
That was his year. He was playing MVP caliber football.
And then Kaeding punked him in the playoffs.
But there were also 2 interceptions in 3rd quarter.
Chargers up 7-3 and driving. In FG range again in 3rd quarter.
He throws deep to Jackson, kind of a floater jump ball that Jackson can’t reel in and Revis makes a great/lucky play intercepts it. But it was an up for grabs throw.
The very next drive he is backed up by his own redzone. Still up 7-3 and he tosses another interception trying to hit either Jackson or Gates and it sets up the Jets at the 16yds line with momentum and an opportunity to score. They punch it in to go up 10-7.
Link to Jets Game
The Throw that set them up at the 16yd line.
Can't blame o-line.
Unless you claim we had to keep the back in to help with protection.
But that is no excuse, all teams do that. Patriots, Saints, Brady, Brees will keep back in to help.
So we have to blame Gates or Jackson for running a wrong route or something.
But look at the coverage and the throw. Was it a pass that sailed over Jackson or was it short to Gates.
Did both Jackson and Gates screw up. I have no idea what happened.
I have to say Rivers as QB wasn't on the same page with them or vice versa.
These things happen too often in big games. It was 2nd down & 9. Backed up, but still up 7-3 in the 3rd quarter.
Jets offense wasn't doing anything.
If he had mobility, there was room to run for yards on 2nd down.
Just think the situational football decision was risky. Don't help the Jets out there.
So, yes. I put that on the franchise QB.
Who has it better than us?Comment
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Why so many interceptions?
A. The o-line did Not block well, that is why.
B. When the o-line blocks well. Then the receiver is running the wrong route.
C. When the line blocks well and the receiver runs a good route. It was the OC's bad playcall. Should have call the don't turn it over play. Damn it OC.
We can't always have moon cheese excuses to cover up poor throws and poor situational football.
Who cares if you can throw for miles between the 20s.
Redzone to Score.
Redzone Backed up.
Late Game.
2 minute.
Down and Distance.
Scorebooard.
Time.
Match ups.
Games often come down to a few plays that are made or not made.
Rivers just cant seem to make enough plays in key moments of games or seasons to carry his team to the top.
Its been 10 Years since AFC West title.
That is not a 1st ballot hall of famer resume.Who has it better than us?Comment
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The current o-line talent:
Okung vet pro bowler
Pouncey vet pro bowler
Feeney (3rd rd pick)
Lamp (2nd rd pick, year 3. Injuries keeping him out so far)
Tevi (7th Rd Pick, year 3, and made position switch half way through college)
Pipkins (2nd Rd pick, 1st year)
Quessenberry (5th rd pick, 2nd year)
Schofield veteran
Scott udfa
Missing Okung and Pouncey does make things more challenging. No doubt. But it still does not excuse the too many horrible late game decisions by Rivers.
And o-line excuses doesn't justify 10 straight seasons of no AFC West titles.
IMO, the o-line excuse and other excuses are moon cheese excuses for a franchise QB who isn't making enough game winning plays.
I hope we have a Goff type of person on this line.
I hope Okung and Pouncey return in 2020 and have healthy years.
I hope we give Pipkins and Lamp more time in their careers to get on the field.
I hope Feeney gets more time to develop at the pro level.
I hope we show more patience with them before we declare them busts. Fluker the bust is on the field at Seattle. He isn't great. But Russell Wilson is.
I hope Rivers bounces back to 2009 style and keeps the rookie QB we should draft in the off-season on the bench for at least 1 season.
But, my patience is wearing thin with Philip. 10 Years and no AFC West titles?!!
I expect more from a franchise QB that people are calling a hall of famer.
Next man up at QB. JOE BURROW!!!Who has it better than us?Comment
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I prefer the pass block win rate metric which has them at 18th best pass blocking o-line.Originally posted by Kingcrimson View Post
Rivers does a good job of avoiding sacks. Always has.Who has it better than us?Comment
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Great points, Critty...so on that 2009 team that went 13-3, even with a halfway decent O-line, (at least McNeill and Dielman) -- Rivers STILL heaved a couple of picks when the game was on the line--further proof of my theory that Rivers doesn't handle pressure very well--he tends to press and play "hero ball"--this year even more so than most...Originally posted by Critty View PostThat 13-3 Charger team of 2009.
McNeill
Dielman
Mruczkowski never played a snap at center before in an NFL game. (Hardwick was on IR)
Vasquez
Clary
Hmm?
The Chargers had a historically great passing offense that year, #1.
Their Run Game was ranked last, the defense was 23rd. Special Teams 16th.
They suffered injuries. Jamal the Wall went on IR. Hardwick went on IR. The middle of trenches on both sides of ball lost its best pro bowl player.
They won a lot of games that year.
Should give bulk of credit to that o-line? The HC. The OC.
No. I won’t do that. I give the majority of credit to Philip Rivers. He carried that team all year. 4 game wining drives. He has never had more in a single season.
He had 76.9 QBR, the best of his career. He had 4250Yds. 28TDs. Just 9INTs. And even rush TD. (he only has 3 career rushing TDs ever)
That was his year. He was playing MVP caliber football.
And then Kaeding punked him in the playoffs.
But there were also 2 interceptions in 3rd quarter.
Chargers up 7-3 and driving. In FG range again in 3rd quarter.
He throws deep to Jackson, kind of a floater jump ball that Jackson can’t reel in and Revis makes a great/lucky play intercepts it. But it was an up for grabs throw.
The very next drive he is backed up by his own redzone. Still up 7-3 and he tosses another interception trying to hit either Jackson or Gates and it sets up the Jets at the 16yds line with momentum and an opportunity to score. They punch it in to go up 10-7.
Link to Jets Game
The Throw that set them up at the 16yd line.
Can't blame o-line.
Unless you claim we had to keep the back in to help with protection.
But that is no excuse, all teams do that. Patriots, Saints, Brady, Brees will keep back in to help.
So we have to blame Gates or Jackson for running a wrong route or something.
But look at the coverage and the throw. Was it a pass that sailed over Jackson or was it short to Gates.
Did both Jackson and Gates screw up. I have no idea what happened.
I have to say Rivers as QB wasn't on the same page with them or vice versa.
These things happen too often in big games. It was 2nd down & 9. Backed up, but still up 7-3 in the 3rd quarter.
Jets offense wasn't doing anything.
If he had mobility, there was room to run for yards on 2nd down.
Just think the situational football decision was risky. Don't help the Jets out there.
So, yes. I put that on the franchise QB.Comment
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Nicks and Evans were the best guard combo in football that year.Originally posted by Critty View PostComment
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