Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[dmac_bolt]

That decision was entirely dependent on him evaluating Herbert to be worth a top 6 pick. If he evaluated him to NOT be worth a top cluster pick (like most of this board and most pundits) he would have taken someone else as the top 2 QBs were gone and tried to get Hurts or someone later. Your reasoning is exactly backwards. You're trying to downgrade the decision for being correct, which is really, really odd.

Insteaf of listening to others he went with their own evaluation and made the right call. That's not a no-brainer.

Could we say … it was a brainer?

I don’t get the adamant certainty that of course anyone would have taken him. This board certainly did not want to. Simmons was one favorite at 6 around here, can’t recall what others were no-brainer preference over JH anymore but there were a couple others. Can’t teach accuracy, he can’t hit a receiver, all that stuff in triplicate was the no-brains consensus here.

i don’t mean to single out Quack, its not about Saw. You are 100% correct - it was not the consensus no-brainer pick. Never mind that TT and Co had their eye on JH for a full year and they have said he was the QB they wanted all along.

[Steve]

But most PA passes are made from the pocket. Seems heavily influenced by the pass protection. Our offense was inconsistent but not because of Herbert. Assigning a negative score to Herbert because the OL couldn’t run block and couldn’t protect the right side seems like a misdirected stat.

PA passes are made from the pocket, but the QB is not reading the D like in a regular pass. They drop initially with their back to the D, so they only end up reading part of the D, because it takes too long to find all the defenders (again) when they finally turn back downfield to throw. You also don't usually ask the OL to use the regular pass protection technique, because the DL and LB are reading the blocks as much or more than they are the RB/QB action. So the QB isn't going to be able to just sit back and wait, unless the fake was incredibly successful. Mostly a play-action pass is a very limited number of options and it lives or dies on how good the fake is. Some offense even consider the play-action passing part of the running game, not the passing game because the techniques and rules are much more like running plays than regular passing plays.

Most regular 3 or 5-step drops if done correctly, have plenty of other options, so even if you run up against a less than ideal call, the QB can go to an alternative read and get something out of the play.

I understand why the guy broke the passes down the way he did. I just don't think it means what he thinks it means. He mentions "(for those in the back this is meant to be a hyperbolic statement. Obviously, RPO/Screen/PA production isn't literlly fake, but success on those plays is less a direct product of QB's skill...". OK, I get it, but is it true? Tyler Huntley and Lamar Jackson both struggled in EPA, ranking 23rd and 25th respectively. OK, but they are both really good at running their O, and their O still scores a lot of points. They aren't great pure pocket passers, but maybe teams that are trying to find a QB need to spend more time trying to find ways to work around not having an Aaron Rodgers or Justin Herbert, and more ways to try and move the ball.

Plus, I really think EPA has a LOT to do with how good the rest of your offense is.

[sonorajim]

Most fans didn't know that TT was committed to a QB at 6. Period.
A lot of this board liked Simmons or a left tackle.

[dmac_bolt]

PA passes are made from the pocket, but the QB is not reading the D like in a regular pass. They drop initially with their back to the D, so they only end up reading part of the D, because it takes too long to find all the defenders (again) when they finally turn back downfield to throw. You also don't usually ask the OL to use the regular pass protection technique, because the DL and LB are reading the blocks as much or more than they are the RB/QB action. So the QB isn't going to be able to just sit back and wait, unless the fake was incredibly successful. Mostly a play-action pass is a very limited number of options and it lives or dies on how good the fake is. Some offense even consider the play-action passing part of the running game, not the passing game because the techniques and rules are much more like running plays than regular passing plays.

Most regular 3 or 5-step drops if done correctly, have plenty of other options, so even if you run up against a less than ideal call, the QB can go to an alternative read and get something out of the play.

I understand why the guy broke the passes down the way he did. I just don't think it means what he thinks it means. He mentions "(for those in the back this is meant to be a hyperbolic statement. Obviously, RPO/Screen/PA production isn't literlly fake, but success on those plays is less a direct product of QB's skill...". OK, I get it, but is it true? Tyler Huntley and Lamar Jackson both struggled in EPA, ranking 23rd and 25th respectively. OK, but they are both really good at running their O, and their O still scores a lot of points. They aren't great pure pocket passers, but maybe teams that are trying to find a QB need to spend more time trying to find ways to work around not having an Aaron Rodgers or Justin Herbert, and more ways to try and move the ball.

Plus, I really think EPA has a LOT to do with how good the rest of your offense is.

I think the assertion that the QB doesn’t read the coverage after faking the handoff is absurd. I will accept your hypothesis he has to read it faster, which means more skill and processing capacity, not less. Bottom line is he’s in the pocket, and the guy said he was measuring pocket passing. Just my take.

I’d like to know how many of Mahomey’s “pocket passes” he actually stayed in the pocket for. Either the sample size goes way down and becomes less relevant to the overall KC game, or he’s counting a lot of passes that homey threw outside the pocket, because homey doesn’t consistently stay in the pocket.

[Boltdiehard]

Most fans didn't know that TT was committed to a QB at 6. Period.
A lot of this board liked Simmons or a left tackle.

I’m guilty of wanting Simmons. So bad. :dead:

But it all worked out! We got us a whiz kid with a laser guided howitzer! :larry:

[Craig440]

I'm a little worried about Herbert going on what my old partner use to call "the banquet circuit". I've seen a lot of him in the media and doing commercials and such. The fact he is not a big social media guy is a good sign, but it would be real easy for such a charismatic guy like him to be lead astray and lose focus.


I mean lets face it, not only is he a great football player, he is someone you would love to have as a friend and have a beer with. People around the league who hate the Chargers love Herbert. It could be dangerous.

[Velo]

I'm a little worried about Herbert going on what my old partner use to call "the banquet circuit". I've seen a lot of him in the media and doing commercials and such. The fact he is not a big social media guy is a good sign, but it would be real easy for such a charismatic guy like him to be lead astray and lose focus.


I mean lets face it, not only is he a great football player, he is someone you would love to have as a friend and have a beer with. People around the league who hate the Chargers love Herbert. It could be dangerous.

I don't see Herbert as a guy who gets carried away by his own celebrity and loses focus on what makes him a celeb - football. There have been some stories just in the past few weeks about how we won't even take a vacation because he likes going into the Chargers facility every day, whether to work out or watch film, etc. I don't know if there is a more dedicated athlete in the NFL. My concern is just the opposite actually, that he will suffer burnout because of his devotion. However, I'm not really that concerned because when you are doing something you love you don't burn out.

[Boltjolt]

I don't see Herbert as a guy who gets carried away by his own celebrity and loses focus on what makes him a celeb - football. There have been some stories just in the past few weeks about how we won't even take a vacation because he likes going into the Chargers facility every day, whether to work out or watch film, etc. I don't know if there is a more dedicated athlete in the NFL. My concern is just the opposite actually, that he will suffer burnout because of his devotion. However, I'm not really that concerned because when you are doing something you love you don't burn out.

Agree...and i dont know why anybody would be concerned what he is doing in his offseason. Like the poster criticizing Tranq for doing an hour podcast.....interviewing our players lol. These guys have lives too just like us.

[gzubeck]

I don't see Herbert as a guy who gets carried away by his own celebrity and loses focus on what makes him a celeb - football. There have been some stories just in the past few weeks about how we won't even take a vacation because he likes going into the Chargers facility every day, whether to work out or watch film, etc. I don't know if there is a more dedicated athlete in the NFL. My concern is just the opposite actually, that he will suffer burnout because of his devotion. However, I'm not really that concerned because when you are doing something you love you don't burn out.

I don't see him getting complacent for at least a decade and that's enough for most of the Charger fans posting around here. LOL!

[Craig440]

I agree with you guys so I will stop worrying and just enjoy our QB. Thanks for straightening me out. LOL.

[Velo]

Here is the story about Herbert not wanting to take a vacation (while everybody else in the NFL is) because he likes football so much he doesn't want to take time away from it. Like I said, if anything, he's too devoted and that can lead to burn out. But he points out that vacation means you want to get away, and why would he want to get away from something he loves? And when you make a living at something you love, going to work every day seems like a vacation. We should all be so lucky. I do think, though, that in the future he is going to have to force himself to take a few weeks off every year. One of my mother's wisdoms when I was growing up was that too much of anything is bad for you, even if it is a really good thing.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-star-hates-vacations-chargers-qb-justin-herbert-explains-why-he-doesnt-like-taking-time-off/

I think the great thing about football, for me, is I need football. I love waking up and going to work and lifting, running, throwing and watching film. I think too much off-time can kind of be a burden to me sometimes, so I always look forward to having stuff to do, whether that's watching film or us throwing or being out here for OTAs. I think that's kind of what I look forward to.

I feel like I'm kind of on vacation right now. I think that if you're taking a vacation, you're trying to get away from something. I always look forward to coming to this place and working and doing all of these fun things. Going home, I'll do the same thing, trying to have as much fun as I can with my family and things like that, but it is work and getting ready for the season.

[gzubeck]

Here is the story about Herbert not wanting to take a vacation (while everybody else in the NFL is) because he likes football so much he doesn't want to take time away from it. Like I said, if anything, he's too devoted and that can lead to burn out. But he points out that vacation means you want to get away, and why would he want to get away from something he loves? And when you make a living at something you love, going to work every day seems like a vacation. We should all be so lucky. I do think, though, that in the future he is going to have to force himself to take a few weeks off every year. One of my mother's wisdoms when I was growing up was that too much of anything is bad for you, even if it is a really good thing.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-star-hates-vacations-chargers-qb-justin-herbert-explains-why-he-doesnt-like-taking-time-off/

He's already hit the lottery and he's on the verge of hitting Mega Millions and he get's to be a much liked Football Hero. What's not to like about being a bit of a workaholic at his stage of his career.

:smoking: