Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[DerwinBosa]

What was supposed to be a knock on Herbert (not vocal enough, won't command locker room, ect.) is actually a strength in an Eli Manning sort of way except Herbert's sheer talent and play on the field leaves no question who is the best player on the field. Herbert is the type of QB you don't want to see in the playoffs. Ice coldness running in his veins under pressure situations. Just needs that defense to pull together some strong games and get hot for a run.

Ugh..please.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

What’s impressive about Herbert is that he seems unphased by all this extreme praise that is being heaped on him. And it does not appear to be an act. His humility is so rare and it ends up making people like him and want to focus on him more (ie the stadium camera guy is always trying to catch him on the sidelines). Herbert makes up for some of the prima Dona jerks that make the NFL look bad. If the NFL is smart, they will do all they can to promote him as the face of the NFL, you know things like a lot of calls should go his way. Like Brady always got treated.

TG

I'm sure it'll help if we dethrone Mahomes and the Chiefs.

[Velo]

Keenan Allen: Phil (Rivers) was the smartest person I ever played with. Justin is the most talented. He (Phil) knew everything about the defense that the defense didn't even know.

Mike Williams says on the TD pass he caught to tie the game against the Raiders Week 18, he doesn't know how Herbert got the ball there. He had to get to the perfect spot for him to make the catch, and he did.

[AK47]

Ugh..please.

second thought...lol Not like Eli.

[Craig440]

Seen a lot of good QB's in my life. But don't know if Ive seen a young one like this.

(218) Justin Herbert Top 10 Plays From 2021 Season | LA Chargers - YouTube

[BigBad]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/8/31/23329391/justin-herbert-mental-processing-los-angeles-chargers

[Velo]

This is sort of mind-blowing.

[Xenos]

[21&500]

COSTA MESA, Calif. — It was late in a joint training camp practice with the Cowboys on Aug. 18, and Justin Herbert and the Chargers offense faced a third-and-20 from inside Dallas territory. The teams were in the final period of the practice — a two-minute drill. First team against first team. And the Chargers were struggling in protection.

That was by design. The Chargers coaches did minimal preparation for the Cowboys’ pressure schemes heading into this first of these two joint practices. They wanted Herbert and his blockers — offensive linemen, running backs and tight ends — to test their protection rules. They wanted the players to adjust on the fly, like they would have to in a game. It was a great learning experience. It also meant Herbert was under duress for most of the day.

A sack on second down moved the Chargers behind the sticks. The Chargers set up in shotgun formation on third down, and Herbert scanned the defense. The quarterback raised his hands in front of his helmet to prepare for the snap from center Corey Linsley. Then he barked.

“SET, HUT!”

The ball did not move. But Cowboys defensive lineman Neville Gallimore did. Gallimore jumped off the line of scrimmage and shot upfield. The left side of the Chargers’ offensive line, left tackle Rashawn Slater and left guard Matt Feiler, responded by moving into their sets. Whistles blew. Flags flew. Gallimore was called offside, and the Chargers moved 5 yards deeper into Cowboys territory.

The Cowboys’ defensive linemen had been teeing off for two hours. And yet even with his protection leaking, Herbert had an answer to alleviate the stress for at least one play. It is one of the many new tools in his quarterbacking toolbox: the hard count.

GO DEEPER

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This year, Herbert will be playing in the same offensive system and with the same play caller — offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi — in consecutive seasons for the first time in his NFL career.

On a general level, that continuity breeds more comfort and understanding. On a specific level, the tangible differences in Herbert’s game will develop around the margins and in the nuances of the position. Manipulating the snap count — or what is referred to as “cadence” in football jargon — is a prime example of this.

Lombardi has referred to these nuances as “Football 202 type of stuff” — an analogy to how college courses are categorized. A 100-level course covers the basics. A 200-level course dives further into the details. Herbert was in a 100-level course last season, mastering the playbook, play calls and kills and focusing on things like route combinations, route adjustments and read progressions. Now he is moving on to the more advanced components, like cadence.

“It’s one thing when you’re going into a new playbook and trying to memorize all the calls and go out there to the huddle and get it right,” Herbert said during OTAs in June. “So the easy thing is just to say, ‘On one,’ clap and get out. Now, I know the play, I know all of these kills and alerts, now I’m going to start using my cadence to maybe get the defense to jump offsides. It’s a weapon that you can use. If you can start kind of getting better in areas like that, little by little, I think that’s really helpful.”

The origin of this new wrinkle to Herbert’s game is center Corey Linsley, who spent seven seasons in Green Bay before signing with the Chargers in free agency last offseason. Snapping the ball to Aaron Rodgers over those seven seasons, Linsley witnessed first hand how valuable cadence variation can be when implemented and developed over a long period of time and used properly.

Corey Linsley (63) spent seven years alongside Aaron Rodgers and is the perfect center to help teach Justin Herbert some of the nuances of a cadence. (Kirby Lee / USA Today)

Rodgers turned cadence variation into one of his most lethal weapons. If the quarterback can draw a defensive player offside, the play is not whistled dead despite the flag being thrown. The offense gets what is commonly called a “free play.” The quarterback oftentimes will take a risky deep shot downfield. If it is completed, the offense takes the gain and declines the penalty. If it is incomplete or even intercepted, the offense can simply accept the penalty and take the 5 yards.

Since 2008, Rodgers has been more prolific than any quarterback in on these free plays. In that time, Rodgers has completed 30 passes on free plays, according to TruMedia. Of those, 12 have gone for touchdowns, plus he has a 1-yard rushing touchdown as well. No other quarterback has more than four touchdowns on free plays since 2008. Rodgers has averaged 29.23 yards per completion on those 30 passes. His 878 passing yards on free plays are top in the league by a wide margin. Former Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is second with 561.

QBs on free plays since 2008

Aaron Rodgers	30	878	12	29.2
Ben Roethlisberger	24	561	2	22.8
Dak Prescott	20	432	1	21.6
Matthew Stafford	15	415	1	27.7
Patrick Mahomes	17	377	2	21.5

Linsley knew this could be an advantage for the Chargers. And after arriving in Los Angeles, he also knew he had a young quarterback with the aptitude to incorporate it into his game.

But Linsley made sure to ease into this process. Lombardi’s offensive system, which he brought over from the Saints, is notoriously complex. The coaching staff did not hold anything back when installing the offense in the spring and summer last year. Herbert told The Athletic in July 2021 that “guys were drowning” in the spring as they tried to learn the playbook.

That changed over the course of the summer and the first half of the season. And as Herbert got more familiar and completed his 101 course, Linsley started introducing the idea of cadence variation, using Rodgers as a model.

“As we kind of got more comfortable with the offense, and as we got more comfortable with each other and working together,” Linsley said, “it was something that kind of grew from that. I wasn’t going to come in here and be like, ‘We got to do this.’ I’m not like that. But from his perspective, it’s just that understanding of how he can use that to his advantage and just showing him.”

Linsley added: “Justin seems to be very receptive towards it and understands the type of pressure that it puts on the defense when we can dictate the pace at which we’re playing through cadences, how we can use it to draw them offsides, how we can use it to see things. Him just being receptive towards that has been awesome, and I felt like it was such an advantage to us because of how good Aaron was with the cadence.”

For Rodgers and Linsley, the advantage manifested primarily in keeping defensive linemen off balance. And defensive players did not necessarily have to jump offside for the cadence variation to make an impact. A free play is the best outcome. But the possibility of a hard count always existed. Defensive coordinators had to prepare for it by watching the television broadcast copy and telling their players to be ready for it. The minor reminder in the back of a defensive player’s mind could lead to a millisecond of uncertainty, and that is all the time an offensive lineman needs to win a rep.

“You could tell guys that were normally flying off the ball,” Linsley said, “there was definitely a little bit of hesitation sometimes.”

Added Linsley: “Putting it on tape over and over and over again, showing the defense this is something that we are going to do and that we’ve perfected, that gets in the heads of defensive coordinators. And then they’re telling their guys to watch out for it, and now we have an element where we can draw them offsides or get them to play tentative.”

Herbert has relied on Linsley to develop more cadence variation, and it started showing up consistently during training camp this year, though Linsley said they first started working on it together about midway through last season. The offseason and training camp obviously provides more time and opportunity for experimentation.

“He’s been phenomenal with it,” Linsley said.

Herbert said he has also been watching some of the TV broadcasts of Rodgers’ games to actually hear the inflection on the cadences Linsley is relaying to him.

“It’s really important for a quarterback because it’s another level of the game that you can kind of take advantage of the defense,” Herbert said. “Having Corey and especially where he’s from and all the things he did over there, he’s got a great feel for it, and so he’s been on me about that. And the offensive line, they love that, when they get a jump on the defense, or maybe those guys are jumping offsides. Any free play we can get, I think it’s huge.”

Linsley said he will first come up with a cadence idea while in the offensive line room. Then when the Chargers go out to practice, Linsley will discuss the idea with Herbert during walkthroughs. Linsley always defers to Herbert’s preferences. He is running the show, after all.

“Ultimately, it’s whatever he wants to do, right?” Linsley said. “If he doesn’t feel comfortable or he doesn’t feel like it’s an advantage, then he’s obviously just not going to do it.”

Lombardi joked that sometimes he feels out of the loop because the cadence variation component has been so “player-driven” by Linsley and Herbert.

“All of a sudden they’re in there creating a new cadence and I’m like, ‘What are we doing?’” Lombardi said with a smile. “I got to go up and learn. I’m like, ‘All right, you guys handle it. But don’t jump offsides.’”

Once Justin Herbert and Corey Linsley get on board with a certain cadence, they bring it to offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi. (Kirby Lee / USA Today)

This was tongue-in-cheek. As Linsley said, “Everybody’s got to be on the same page.” And the natural progression of a cadence idea goes first from Linsley to Herbert — to make sure the quarterback is on board — before being introduced to Lombardi.

At the same time, this also provides a window into another fascinating facet of this experiment. Lombardi was an offensive assistant under Sean Payton with the Saints for over a decade. Payton’s offensive philosophy revolved around the concept of “blitzing the defense.” That refers to using a wide array of personnel packages, substituting quickly and crisply and playing with a certain level of pace and tempo to keep pressure on opposing defenses. Drew Brees was the computer processor at the center of the system that made it all run smoothly.

Because of that philosophy, Brees was not a huge proponent of spending too much time at the line of scrimmage. The Saints had some cadence variation in their system, but as Lombardi said, “We were kind of a get-up-and-go team.” From 2008 to 2020, Brees only completed 14 passes for 274 on free plays, according to TruMedia.

So in some ways, the cadence variation runs counter to Lombardi’s philosophy. But Lombardi trusts his center. He trusts his quarterback. And because of Herbert and Linsley’s combined football IQ, Lombardi knows this can be an advantage with used in the right moments.

“They’ve been good with it, and I’m a fan of it,” Lombardi said. “So I’m always telling them, ‘Look, these are tools. I don’t want the ball getting snapped with two seconds on the clock every play. Use them when we have to, but let’s not get in the way of tempo.’ But I do like it. I think it gives us an advantage, and it might give us some free plays.”

Said Linsley: “If we could mesh the worlds of Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers as much as we can, I think that’s a win-win.”

The key now is for Herbert and Linsley to commit to the cadence variation to put it on defenses’ radars. As Linsley said, “Building tendencies so you can break them.”

“Once you get to point where you’re kind of even,” Linsley said. “That’s when you can be dangerous with it.”

That takes time. It takes practices like the joint session with Cowboys in August. It takes game action, which we will finally see on Sunday when the Chargers host the Raiders in the season opener at SoFi Stadium. In his first two seasons, Herbert has only completed three passes on free plays for 61 yards, but one of them was a touchdown to Keenan Allen during his rookie season against the Panthers.

Consistency and dedication are paramount. It has to become second nature for all members of the offense, coaches and players. That is what creates the advantage.

“That’s just what we’re building here,” Linsley said. “It’s a process, but I feel good about where we’re going.”

(Top photo of Corey Linsley snapping to Justin Herbert: Katelyn Mulcahy / Getty Images)

[SuperCharged]

Flipping between the Top 100 and the game. I really feel 40 is kind of a slap in the face. But it is what it is. Clean pocket secondary's are doomed. I hope to see him run just a little more this and if can learn to be a cadence expert. Yikes. Man this good thursday night game is getting me super hyped. Von Miller looking like beast.

[Pat_Swindle]

Yeah, I feel like this is the year Herbert gets his first MVP. Ever since his rookie season, I knew it wasn't a question of "if", but more like "when". Other than the division (and conference, for that matter) being super tough, this is the year for him to do it. Great weapons, great O-line, and continuity within the system. He really is the best QB in the NFL, it just appears only select people know that.

[Craig440]

Having Lindsey teach him the cadence thing is great. We know he's smart and will get it easily. Just hope he uses it sparingly when we need it. I think in college he never took a snap from under center if I remember.