Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[Lefty2SLO]

Yes but lets remember, during a tough year where he had painful rib injury, rarely had his best WRs together and had a shitty OC...he did still finish 2nd in the NFL in passing yards, behind only Mahomes

I'm with you. It's amazing what he's been able to do saddled with all the issues this organization's had. If we had an average QB we'd have been lucky to win 4 games this year . . . .

[DerwinBosa]

I remember reading an article immediately after Justin got hurt that quoted multiple other QB's who had similar issues. Basically they all said that the ribs will be an issue for the rest of the year as long as he keeps playing. That particular injury doesn't go away without significant down time.

There's no denying his physical toughness, but there are limits to everything. If he could have played 'game manager' a la Brock Purdy it would have worked out better. Unfortunately Herbert has to carry the team, has to compensate for all of the other deficiencies. That's a lot of pressure. This could NOT have been a fun year for him . . . . hopefully he gets healthy and recharged over the offseason.

This makes me think of Philip Rivers following the 2014 season. He thought about retiring, and then there were trade rumors of him going to Tennessee, with the #2 overall pick coming back to us, which we would have likely used on Marcus Mariota. Obviously I'm glad that didn't happen, but Rivers was beaten worse that year than any other, which is saying a lot, and he was fed up with the way he wasn't getting help.

How many more years like this one will Herbert be able to take?

[gzubeck]

This makes me think of Philip Rivers following the 2014 season. He thought about retiring, and then there were trade rumors of him going to Tennessee, with the #2 overall pick coming back to us, which we would have likely used on Marcus Mariota. Obviously I'm glad that didn't happen, but Rivers was beaten worse that year than any other, which is saying a lot, and he was fed up with the way he wasn't getting help.

How many more years like this one will Herbert be able take?

we're drafting oline at twice the rate than during rivers era. Don't have any hard stats but a quick visual inspection.

[DerwinBosa]

we're drafting oline at twice the rate than during rivers era. Don't have any hard stats but a quick visual inspection.

2014 rushing: 1,367 yards, 3.4 yards a carry.
2022 rushing: 1,524 yards, 3.8 yards a carry.

Not much of a difference there, and Ryan Mathews missed 10 games in 2014. Brandon Oliver was the leading rusher.

With Herbert's injury it would have been nice to have a superior running game to fall back on.

[21&500]

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[LinksterAC]

Definitely not Herbs best game.
I see a Herbert who isn't trusting his protection and playing too conservatively. I imagine the thinking was, so long as I don't turn it over, we win. Idk.
good video, the offensive system itself isn't the problem.
The playcalling wasn't the main problem in this specific game.
better play by Herb earns a few more first downs and ices the game. Really hope it's not psychological with Herbert.
likely something between not trusting protection and not wanting to take hits to the ribs.
If he gives it 1 moie second on some of those reads, someone gets open. Sucks.
thanks for posting.

Not his best game by any means, and though I agree the system can work, and the play calling wasn't the main problem this game, I do think the implementation of the scheme & the play calling have been generally poor all season.

Even some of his poor play against Jax could be attributed to coaching, IMHO. Ultimately, your OC sets the "commander's intent" (CI) for the offense, and it's clear that a downfield passing attack did not feature in his CI for most of the year. I think it's possible Lombardi contributed to an offensive culture that made a more conservative mindset by his QB more likely.

Let's see if that changes next year. I think it should be a point of emphasis.

[21&500]

Not his best game by any means, and though I agree the system can work, and the play calling wasn't the main problem this game, I do think the implementation of the scheme & the play calling have been generally poor all season.

Even some of his poor play against Jax could be attributed to coaching, IMHO. Ultimately, your OC sets the "commander's intent" (CI) for the offense, and it's clear that a downfield passing attack did not feature in his CI for most of the year. I think it's possible Lombardi contributed to an offensive culture that made a more conservative mindset by his QB more likely.

Let's see if that changes next year. I think it should be a point of emphasis.

100%

[TTThunder]

I remember reading an article immediately after Justin got hurt that quoted multiple other QB's who had similar issues. Basically they all said that the ribs will be an issue for the rest of the year as long as he keeps playing. That particular injury doesn't go away without significant down time.

1. I recalled Hassellbeck said that he had play with the same injury. He even mentioned that if he could go back in time, he would not have done it...

2. I even asked my friend who is an orthopedic about this and his recommendation is to rest and heal.

That's why I was one of the few who would like to rest him until he completely heals (which may be the whole season!) and let the back up quarterback earns their money...

Go Herbert!!!

Go Bolts!!!

[Boltjolt]

I remember reading an article immediately after Justin got hurt that quoted multiple other QB's who had similar issues. Basically they all said that the ribs will be an issue for the rest of the year as long as he keeps playing. That particular injury doesn't go away without significant down time.

There's no denying his physical toughness, but there are limits to everything. If he could have played 'game manager' a la Brock Purdy it would have worked out better. Unfortunately Herbert has to carry the team, has to compensate for all of the other deficiencies. That's a lot of pressure. This could NOT have been a fun year for him . . . . hopefully he gets healthy and recharged over the offseason.

Yep, I said that as well.
I also mentioned it may also be the reason he was throwing more sidearm so that motion likely didn't hurt as much.

I heard on the NFL radio on SXM yesterday that Josh Allen said he had to change his throwing motion for a while when he had that elbow injury til it healed enough and felt better.

[Lefty2SLO]

1. I recalled Hassellbeck said that he had play with the same injury. He even mentioned that if he could go back in time, he would not have done it...

2. I even asked my friend who is an orthopedic about this and his recommendation is to rest and heal.

That's why I was one of the few who would like to rest him until he completely heals (which may be the whole season!) and let the back up quarterback earns their money...

Go Herbert!!!

Go Bolts!!!

If we actually had back up QB's who could play . . . . another change TT needs to make this offseason. Get a decent backup who might actually win some games for us so if something like this happens again (god forbid) Justin CAN rest and maybe the season won't go down the tubes. Unfortunately if Justin doesn't play - and play at a high level - this team has a hard time winning and would have zero chance making the playoffs. Chase & Stick are not the answer . . . . . IMO Chase needs to retire, he's basically been stealing money, and Stick can be upgraded. Stick can be the 3rd QB, but we need a true backup where the falloff from JH is not as extreme.

[Lefty2SLO]

100%

Well said indeed.

This is just my opinion / theory, and is unsupported by any real 'proof' other than circumstantial / statistical (and my own eyes), but based on JH's personality, his willingness to subordinate personal 'glory' for the betterment of the team, and maybe his unwillingness (or let's say un-comfortableness??) overriding or challenge his coaches decisions (potentially setting himself in conflict with and/or embarrassing them), I think it's very likely that over the past couple of years Lombardi / Staley have slowly 'programmed' Herbert to be conservative, to take the safe throw, the safe call, the safe read, reduce risk.

It seems like the only time we saw the real Justin Herbert was at the end of games where they had no choice but to go balls out. I know a lot of other factors played into going with the 'checkdown' philosophy, but this could be a contributing factor. I would happily take a few more mistakes in order to get the 'gangster' QB I know we have. I don't want a game manager - Herbert is too good for that, and it's not maximizing his abilities. The only way that works is if the rest of the team, running game and particularly the defense, can play lights out, and . . . . we were not good (to be polite) in either aspect this year (or last year, or the year before, or the year before, etc etc . . . ).

Not sure what happened in the Jags game - whether he just ran out of gas or was simply worn down by the pressure of carrying this sorry ass team all year. I'm going to give him a mulligan on that one. Hopefully we'll be more balanced (and better) next year.

[LinksterAC]

If we actually had back up QB's who could play . . . . another change TT needs to make this offseason. Get a decent backup who might actually win some games for us so if something like this happens again (god forbid) Justin CAN rest and maybe the season won't go down the tubes. Unfortunately if Justin doesn't play - and play at a high level - this team has a hard time winning and would have zero chance making the playoffs. Chase & Stick are not the answer . . . . . IMO Chase needs to retire, he's basically been stealing money, and Stick can be upgraded. Stick can be the 3rd QB, but we need a true backup where the falloff from JH is not as extreme.

I still think Chase Daniel should have played the rest of the Chiefs game & probably the next game. Maybe the next two.